Gtr Vs Gtst Huge Difference In Performance?

[Roy]

dose someone want to put a price next to these things and see what they add up to? i dont thing ya going to have much change from 8-10k

By all means if you just want a fast car on a budget get the gtst but dont go chaseing power, save the extra and get the gtr its not also going to save you money after hours of modifications but when it come to resell you can get a fair chuch of ya money back.

LOL, because i am bored and on call

GTR, better engine both stock and potential wise. Assuming both engines are std, GTSt will need a turbo upgrade so thats 3K over a GTR

GTR better brakes - Pad and fluid upgrade will do the job for the lighter GTSt. Not really that much different in the R32 brakes - Lets say $650, but GTR will really need the same mod and will need brake upgrade before a GTSt.

GTR better suspension - Some shocks/springs, bushes and swaybars - $2500, will probably now handle better then a GTR unless it has the exact same mods so considering the age of the cars is pretty cash neutral as GTR will need it all as well. So then you only really have the bigger driveshafts (stronger) and alloy hubs...not a big difference really

GTR better diff (2 way LSD vs viscous rubbish) - Fair call, $1300 supplied and installed. But again, so many GTRs are just as old and have shagged diffs. But wait, their transfer cases are shagged so its actuall more expensive to fix, and that assuming the front diff is healthy. LOL tried launching a GTR with a bit of lock on? Often kills front diffs and ruins sumps

GTR better body (light alluminium panels, big flared guards, tough look) - Yeh GTSt suck here. Just live with it, no point flairing guards or anything

GTR better wheels - True, so $1000 for suitable aftermarket wheels, but how many GTR owners upgrade wheels as well, is this something that really costs more on a GTSt? Lets say $1000 anyway. Its the tyres that make the difference and the GTSt with its smaller tyres will be cheaper then the GTR which with its weight will be equally as hard on tyres

GTR better seats - Fair call, but R32 GTSt seats are great. Look crap, but very comfortable and supportive and adjustable lumbar means i was all too happy to give back a friends R33 GTR seat and go back to std for street, but yes i run a MOMO for the track so i can run a proper harness. So lets say upgrade to GTR seats, $800

GTR better interior trim - Ok, but does anyone really care? Crazy to retrim, so lets just say the GTR is a clear winner here

GTR better intercooler - Yep, so throw another $1000 at GTSt

GTR bigger injectors - Yep, throw the same GTR injectors in your GTSt $350.

So looking at the above i cant see how can spend 10k on a GTSt, but most of the money is a age/wear thing as much as an upgrade so is applicable to the GTR as well. You say better seats, i say most 10-20 year old Skyliens trim is shot anyway so needs re-trim?!?!? I know lots of the used GTR seats have bent frames, a scary amount actually. Have not seen this problem with GTSt seats? Breaking the above down i can see where there is more money to be spent on the GTR at 270rwkws, in fact a GTR will need a turbo upgrade to be reliable at that power.

So not saying GTST is better, hell no. Just pointing out that if you go into it, its not as straight forward as some make out. Trust me, LOL i look at R32 GTRs for a street car all the time. I wasnt one badly. But i keep coming back to practicality and on my tight ass budget the value isnt there to put me in a GTR , especialy like the original poster has said...performance...so doesnt include styling etc

oh, and excuse the typos

edit...and some things that i consider when looking at GTRs. They need an oil cooler before a GTSt, as they typically run higher oil temps. Combined with that is the fact that GTSt run the more durable ball bearign turbos. The GTR is plain bearing, and not even a performance 360 deg thrust bearing, but only 270deg. So oil quality and temp is far more critical.

The other big thing is due to their sump design RB26 engines are far more likely to spin bottom end bearings. Labour to work on them is higher as Nissan packaged them so well from the factory, makes them that little bit more time consuming to work on.

Being twin turbo, should you want more then 250rwkws you have to go two new turbos so is more expensive again. But power increase well worth the investment. But a GTSt will eat up a T3 flanged 3071 or 3076 onto the std manifold and is a cheaper turbo upgrade

The RB26 also have more expensive exhausts, with two dump pipers and more complicated front pipes. Already mentioned the often lazy transfer cases. But how about the front cv joints that wear, not a problem on a GTSt.

The GTR with more traction often needs a more expensive clutch, typically twin plate. You can live happily with a single, but wear will be higher.

So thats just off the top of my head without really having to think that hard about things the GTR needs over a GTSt. Not saying its better or worse, but things that individuals have to consider when thinking about what it best for them

[Travis Trayhern]

it all comes down to how far you want to go with the car really,

now scrub the $100 for intercooler lol more like $600 with pipes some shitty brand.

so the total is $10,200 sry if wrong

now 19k is going to buy a 32gtr in good nick, id say if i was paying 15-17k yeh you would be replacing all these bits.

so the out come is you have to spend $10,200 just to get to gtst to a standard gtr hmmm it would be intresting to put them on the track together seriously. but ya dont have the looks or the re-sale value.

and id thought i would just stir the barrel nt trying to offend anyone

[Roy]

Yeh, but GTR will need suspension as well. Will need brake pads and fluid as well. New diff/s/transfer case. The only obvious thing the GTSt needs from a performance stand point is fmic and injectors. So not that dramatic a spend at all. From there its all far too variable as so many cars purchased will have varying mods

[Travis Trayhern]

Yeh, but GTR will need suspension as well. Will need brake pads and fluid as well. New diff/s/transfer case. The only obvious thing the GTSt needs from a performance stand point is fmic and injectors. So not that dramatic a spend at all. From there its all far too variable as so many cars purchased will have varying mods

i dont know how you can say that i have a gtr all i have replaced is front drive shafts that was due to hellies and i race the dam thing for over a year now and now my best mate has a old r32 gtr he flogs it and it rund 250kw stock everything but mines ecu and pods some shitty 3" cat bak 1 bar factory boost limiter removed and the only thing to go s**t was an old intercooler hose cracked s**t not $100 dam that blew the bank, and there is one more gtr in town and guess what it hasnt broken anything oohhh and it also coops a floggin, maybe ppl should just look at what they are buying and its like anyhting you get what u pay for.... why dose a gtr need brake fluid and not a gtst and pads or diff's mate all a gtst needs for performance is a RB26DETT da.....

when you buy the dam car you look at the pads, diff, ect and if your freshly importing the thing guess what when i goes through compliance it gets new pads fluid.

[Cubes]

Its impossible to tell by just looking at what your buying.

A mate of mine bought an immaculate R32 GTR; it is spotless; low km's drives really nice.

Yet 6months later knock knock knock knock. The Tune was fine.

Shortly following the gearbox began making a huge input shaft bearing noise and eventually collapsed leaving him stranded.

You simply cannot tell by looking at the car; you can pick the best example to find the owner kept it looking good and serviced but thrashed the crap out of it at the local track.

Then you come across a dunga where the owner could only just barley afford it and its the most reliable thing since sliced bread.

Its just Pot Luck simple as that.

GTR's really don't give that acceleration thrill unless they are making 300rwkw+. 300+rwkw through a GTR and you have to start being careful with that third gear; start running expensive clutches etc.

My self.. I find the GTR a tad boring as they do need a fair amount more power to keep up with a GTST once up and rolling and then there's that bucking feel of a highish powered gtst as its trying to get a hold over you. Can't beat it.. Unless you push another 35-40rwkw through the gtr and drop it in rwd mode.

[BHDave]

lets hope ya not racing any later model commonwhores or falcons in a 32 gtst now oh and do you know how much money would have to be spent on a 32 gtst to get it up to boggie 7-10k woundnt get you far at all mate i can tell u now once you get to 250kw and wanna abuse it well drive it how you should ya going to be breaking everything gbox diff, internals, need head wk gee the list goes on 10k might get you a 270kw reliable (can drive it hard) with-out the fancy wheels and race seats and suspension so on...........so

$9k r32 gtst + $10k = 270kw

$19k r32 gtr + $2k = 270kw

for the extra $2k i know what ill have

why would i want a 270rwkw stock suspension r32gtst (or gtr for that matter) when i can have a 210rwkw gtst with adjustable arms, coilovers, diff, clutch, swaybars, radiator, oil cooler and a set of cheap 17 inch rims and semis?

On most tracks in NSW that would mean i'm down 10-20km/h at the end of the straight but for the other 3/4 of the track i am significantly quicker. I'd say quick enough to be 3-5 seconds a lap faster at wakefield, OP or OP south. Pretty even at EC.

oops, quick edit, yes i do know what it costs to mod a GTSt. my definition of mods isn't necessarily limited to the engine as you can see.

Edited June 26, 2008 by BHDave

[raZ1911]

what about a rear wheel drive RB26 Vs the GTST.

Does that just mean if you made the RB25 into a RB28 it would just kick its ass? or still would the 26 be better?

Edited June 26, 2008 by raZ1911

[CR34M]

what about a rear wheel drive RB26 Vs the GTST.

Does that just mean if you made the RB25 into a RB28 it would just kick its ass? or still would the 26 be better?

If there was a rwd 26, like those 180's they use for drifting probs but they have alot of other work done to them. Just for eg. if it was in a 34 25GT or GTT stock, and there was GTT 34 with RB25DET then you'd be right, it would most likely take the 25 out 9/10 times depending on the driver and how he is. But to put one in rwd...custom sumps etc i don't know why you would, by the time you upgrade the brakes if its not a GTT etc and get all the other thousand and 1 parts for it to run well, you might aswell have bought a 34GT-R.

Trust me, i am down this path right now with my 34....and i don't know wether to wait for a 34GTR or to build one from the ground while im waiting on my p's....if you factor money out id rather much have the fun and gratification of building it myself in that respect...that and i lack patients! hehe

Oh soz, just an edit by RB28 do you mean like a 25/26 top end and 30 bottom end?? cause in that case i seen those jump into 800+hp on a rebuild easy, costs alot though aswell....

[Betz]

lets be honest.

owning any 89 - onwards skyline is like a video game.

set your goals, buy your parts and make it happen (naturally there are people also breaking new ground with our cars)

for me, I choose r32 GTR, and it will have up to $60k pumped into it when it goes down for rebuild, JUN 2.7 N1 based stroker, lmgt4's, etc etc.

its all just a game

[Bumblebee]

lol @ cubes...

ive never had any gtst even come close to keep up to my gtr "once rolling" hahahah

infact my old 180sx use to destroy all the gtst "once rolling"

as for boring.... i dunno about u, but doin well over 100km/h down the black spur and havin the rear end step out when ur not expecting it, isnt quite so boring.. neither is launchin it @ 7000-8000rpm and having ur ass planted into the seat as the car grabs the road...

a gtst isnt quite so boring either when its got 300rwkw... quite fun actually.. reminds me alot of the 180sx... shit chassis for traction a shit box compared with an rx7 or gtr. plain and simple.. theres a reason why the never raced the gtst in any class... it just wasnt fast enough

[Travis Trayhern]

gee guys ya held off for a bit there while i held up the fight for the mighty gtr's lol, and yes ist like commonwhore sindrome sometimes like i would have thought u gtst guy would know when ya beaten but ya neva wanna give up hell i get it all the time wannabees coming up next ya in there gtst wanting to drag its just no fun anymore.

[Tomek]

Not sure about you fella's but I bought the GTR for it's good will..

It was the GTR which conquered the touring car championships round the world, don't want to insult anyone by saying it but id feel pretty down after shelling 10k into the car and then seeing a GTR roll by and knowing I could of had one.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Tomek

[Roy]

gee guys ya held off for a bit there while i held up the fight for the mighty gtr's lol, and yes ist like commonwhore sindrome sometimes like i would have thought u gtst guy would know when ya beaten but ya neva wanna give up hell i get it all the time wannabees coming up next ya in there gtst wanting to drag its just no fun anymore.

That is a pretty one dimensional view of a cars performance. A drag race from the lights is an olympic sport for handicapped people that should have been shot into the sheets. Its not a complete measure of a cars performance, but 0-100 or qtr mile does reveal the amazing traction of the GTR off the line. But is not a complete measure. If you want to to drive around being the king of the green light then fair enough, GTR will be the better bet.

And for the record i have repeatedly said the GTSt is not as good as the GTR. My point has been that the GTSt is not that far behind, and its often ignorance on the part of some other car owners that means they make crazy statements. But we are all creatures of our own experiences, and we have all had different experiences. Thing is whether you accept or dismiss the experiences of other people

[jap32r]

yea be extra vigilant in your dicision i thought all i needed was a gtst but now i wish i went the other way and got a gtr

[Cubes]

lol @ cubes...

ive never had any gtst even come close to keep up to my gtr "once rolling" hahahah

infact my old 180sx use to destroy all the gtst "once rolling"

as for boring.... i dunno about u, but doin well over 100km/h down the black spur and havin the rear end step out when ur not expecting it, isnt quite so boring.. neither is launchin it @ 7000-8000rpm and having ur ass planted into the seat as the car grabs the road...

a gtst isnt quite so boring either when its got 300rwkw... quite fun actually.. reminds me alot of the 180sx... shit chassis for traction a shit box compared with an rx7 or gtr. plain and simple.. theres a reason why the never raced the gtst in any class... it just wasnt fast enough

Sure the GTR is the better car but honestly its not for me.. Running costs for one; they use considerably more than my rb30det in the lowly R32 GTST that averages 11l/100km's driving locally with the odd squirt. The GTR on the other hand similiar driving 15-16l/100. :S

Stepping out sideways unexpectedly. Not really an 'acceleration thrill' but more so lack of feel for the car and or the inability to identify changing road conditions and available grip. Of which with a GTST making some reasonable power you become pretty damn good at. My point was the GTR needs a fair whack more power to return the same acceleration thrill. Sure a 7k launch but then up and rolling your sitting there thinking come on get through that next gear.

99% of GTST's are owned by pimple faced teenages with maybe a tune and 200rwkw.

Do the same to a GTR and they make 250rwkw odd.

Mine has now had a fair bit of work done to it (rb30det bigger turbo etc) of which helps it get up and go instantly once the throttle is mashed.

In third gear at 60km/h brought up on to boost slightly hangs level with a mates GTR making 260 something rwkw on 14psi with hks2510's - with second gear selected; he nears the end of second gear and mine simply sprints away.

I'm a strong believer of the sr20 and rb30 having just that little bit better rod/stroke ratio that allows it to punch away out of that corner or rolling accel. just that little bit more instant/stronger than the rb20/25/26's that tend to 'wind' out.

Interestingly enough the quicker cars I know of up and rolling tend to be the good ol sr20. The rb25's and 26's etc tend to take a little to get up and going and play catch up.

Not saying the GTST is better simply stating it is not to be underestimated and often whoops the mightl rb26 if a little work is done to it.

[Roy]

We should all go and make JagR33 big cash offers on his car. GTR ot GTSt, it doesnt matter. Simple fact he has about the best Skyline on the road. They should all be like his

[boostin_r33]

Sorry! cubes 99% of GTST's are owned by pimple faced teenages with maybe a tune and 200rwkw.

Im sorry but im gunna have to dissagree with that statement! Not all Gtst owners are pimple faced teenages which I think is a very bad stereotype and makes me sick Ive owned my r33 gtst for 4 years and I class my self as a enthusist! we look after our cars with pride of owning one! and alot of my mates that have r32's, 33s and even a r31 are aswell we go to local meeting, trackdays etc and to think that we have been looked down upon makes me even sicker!

so each time you see a gts remember it's only a pimple faced teenager driving!

[Roy]

Why complain. I hear pimply faced teenagers get way more sex then me. So happy to be mistaken for one Maybe a pimply faced tart will jump in for a ride

[Duncan1]

Intersting read guys,

I am Biased, but lets be honest if money was no object to anyone, they quite simply wouldnt make a gtst! but i know thats not the case, I see 34 gtt's around from time to time, and if it was me and $25k was my budget i would be buying a rebuilt clean 32 gtr not a 34 gtt if performance was the main objective. Im not saying there isnt a place for these cars but comparisons shouldnt be drawn between the two.

Its a great feeling driving a GTR, buy a 32! beautiful flared guards, leave the rear spoiler on, keep the front lip grey, buy some 34 gtr rims! i dont think i will ever not look at one if it pulled up next to me at the lights!

[NickR33]

Roy... I'll go ya halves... I love that car

this really is a retarded thread... we all know a GTR is the better performance car, there just isn't any doubt about that... and yes most GTSt out there are cheaply/poorly modified and would get owned by even the most stock GTR... however as some of the guys have pointed out there are many valid reasons to own a GTSt over a GTR... and yes with the money spent in the right areas they can come very close to matching a GTR for performance

for me, I spend more than I should keeping my GTSt on the street and on the track... it just simply isn't in my budget to do the same with a GTR, it would be a street only car... and whats the point in owning a performance car icon to go down the shops in... and I don't see the point in dragging a heavy 4wd system around when you don't need to use it 99% of the time

either way I think a good driver will be fast in either and scare the pants off many other sportscars...