Disappointing Results

[BHDave]

Just went for a drive, got the below numbers.... injector duty highest reading was 85.2 at 13.4 psi. First time I have done this! I take it this could mean my injectors are the issue?

Packet Number0 32

Packet Size 32

RPM Decimal 5625

Load Decimal 74

Throttle Position 65.2

PSI Boost 13.4

Injector 1 Delivered 18.056

Injector 1 Acc Enrichment TICs 0

Injector 1 Duty Cycle 85.2

If those are peak values than you are clearly out of fuel if it's pushed any further.

The 3 (maybe 4) important ones there are

1) peak rpm of 5625 is still 1200 less than the stock rev limit so it would use more fuel if reved higher

2) 13.4psi is nothing. the turbo will happiliy stuff 20 odd psi into the engine if you let it and use more fuel if the boost is run to make decent numbers

3) duty is at 85 already so you have no more head room to play with already not even considering that you haven't really pushed it yet

and maybe 4) as i'm not 100% on this one but if the wolf is reading throttle position as a percentage you haven't even given it 2/3 throttle...

So even as it sits right now i think it is unsafe and if you do decide to give it a hit you could potentially cause damage.

This is basic stuff and it should have been brought it to your attention.

get the fuel pump and injectors sorted as a matter of urgency and turn the boost down in the mean time. You should have an adjustable actuator so wind off some preload.

[SLY33]

hi mate, i guess its pretty clear now that you need to bump up your supporting mods in line with the 260ish rwkw you should be able to make, and that you should try a new tuner for not pointing that out to you

cheers

PS from memory i dont recall my 2835proS kit having an adjustable actuator, or does it?

Edited August 4, 2008 by SLY33

[SkyDragon]

If those are peak values than you are clearly out of fuel if it's pushed any further.

The 3 (maybe 4) important ones there are

1) peak rpm of 5625 is still 1200 less than the stock rev limit so it would use more fuel if reved higher

2) 13.4psi is nothing. the turbo will happiliy stuff 20 odd psi into the engine if you let it and use more fuel if the boost is run to make decent numbers

3) duty is at 85 already so you have no more head room to play with already not even considering that you haven't really pushed it yet

and maybe 4) as i'm not 100% on this one but if the wolf is reading throttle position as a percentage you haven't even given it 2/3 throttle...

So even as it sits right now i think it is unsafe and if you do decide to give it a hit you could potentially cause damage.

This is basic stuff and it should have been brought it to your attention.

get the fuel pump and injectors sorted as a matter of urgency and turn the boost down in the mean time. You should have an adjustable actuator so wind off some preload.

Thats exactly right these are fundamental things and I have no idea why/how someone with an apparent high reputation could miss this???

Without painfully spending more $$ on a retune with another tuner and finding out the inevitable. I guess I may aswell purchase injectors and fuel pressure regulator then take it to a different tuner? I already have an aftermarket fuel pump.

But before I do this I will post the dyno chart tomorrow.

[nitestalkr]

Yeah.. i go with injectors as well mate.. i hit 100% duty at high rpms in my R34 with only 200 rwkw.. can only imagine how little fuel u would have up top with 230ish and stock injectors..

[Abo Bob]

Which pump?

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

i run a nismo item... drop in and cheap enough

[MBS206]

Do you still have the stock rubber that goes from air filter toturbo?

[tridentt150v]

I'd get to it and chuck a separate earth strap on that pump, don't need a power lead, but an earth for SII, and as Abo Bob asked, what pump?

[Proximity Motorsport]

i would not be buying a fuel pressure regulator mate. They are a known not needed item

[Birnie]

Agreed on getting replacement Tomei or Nismo fuel pump......easy n00b installation.

And if you are upgrading your injectors, you don't need the FPR. Keep the cash in your pocket.

[SkyDragon]

Tuner tells me "engine starts pinging when more timing is entered into the engine. Fuel is not an issue, I am getting plenty of fuel when needed." "The wolfs do a great job of getting plenty of fuel out of the stock injectors"

He says the reason why I am getting 85% at 13.4 psi is because he put a richer tune in the car to be safe.

Only other variable could be bad fuel?? Car had BP98 when tuned? Bad batch?

Yes Choku I have been told he FPR's are not really needed.

Edited August 4, 2008 by SkyDragon

[bnr#@]

Love the whole thing about wolf geting heaps of fuel out of the injectors... If someone can tell how a computer can magicaly make a certain size orifice flow more id be very interested... Last few people ive heard trying this method with the wolf destroyed their pistons....

[BHDave]

Tuner tells me "engine starts pinging when more timing is entered into the engine. Fuel is not an issue, I am getting plenty of fuel when needed." "The wolfs do a great job of getting plenty of fuel out of the stock injectors"

He says the reason why I am getting 85% at 13.4 psi is because he put a richer tune in the car to be safe.

Mate, he's yanking your chain. 2-3 years ago there were a heap of guys from perth claiming big numbers from wolfs and stock injectors. Simple fact, 370cc/min injectors cannot flow more than 370cc/min at 100% duty. More fundamentals....

Make him guarantee it. Make him agree to the engine rebuild at his cost when it all goes pear shaped because you don't have enough fuel at 1 bar and the engine pings itself to death.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

square peg round hole anyone?

stop trying to be a cheapass... you're only going to end up costing yourself 4k to try to save $700

[bnr#@]

Mate, he's yanking your chain. 2-3 years ago there were a heap of guys from perth claiming big numbers from wolfs and stock injectors. Simple fact, 370cc/min injectors cannot flow more than 370cc/min at 100% duty. More fundamentals....

Make him guarantee it. Make him agree to the engine rebuild at his cost when it all goes pear shaped because you don't have enough fuel at 1 bar and the engine pings itself to death.

Those are exactly the incidents i was refering to. met one of the guys personaly, the repair wasnt cheap... Prety shure the worshop isnt arround these days either after that set of misshaps....

[SkyDragon]

square peg round hole anyone?

stop trying to be a cheapass... you're only going to end up costing yourself 4k to try to save $700

Not the issue at all. I completely see the sense in spending $700~ on injectors, however the tuner repeatedly tells me that this IS NOT the issue as the duty cycle on the injectors was only 80% when the pinging began to occur.

My issue sounds almost identical to this one

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Gurus-t219935.html

No resolution in the end though???

[R31Nismoid]

so your @ 80%. Means your pretty much on the limit.

You do NOT push injectors to 100%.

You take them to about 85-90% at the most. Running something at its absolute maximum leaves no room for anything.

Its probably a case of your making 200rwkw (260rwhp), and they are 80% at that point which sounds much more reasonable.

Either way, they WILL be at 100%, BEFORE you reach the limit of a 2835. Its as simple as that

[BHDave]

I can only suggest getting another opinion. A random dyno run at another workshop and another tuners opinion won't hurt before commiting to either injectors or engine rebuild.

I'm still a bit concerned by what he has said, particularly about the injectors only being at 80% when the pinging starts, yet your log shows you can easily push the car past that point as it stands....

[Munkyb0y]

tuners are a dime a dozen. if it came down to it, i'm sure you'd rather ditch your tuner than ditch your engine. so put it to the test. get another opinion.

you'd be surprised how quick your loyalties change, if you find out you've been fed a load of bullshit

[The Mafia]

Not the issue at all. I completely see the sense in spending $700~ on injectors, however the tuner repeatedly tells me that this IS NOT the issue as the duty cycle on the injectors was only 80% when the pinging began to occur.

My issue sounds almost identical to this one

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Gurus-t219935.html

No resolution in the end though???

holy f**k mate, people here are 10x more experienced than this tuner. Are you listening? Sack the tuner, and get another. If you don't, you will have no power, a shit tune, and eventually a dead engine. And if you rebuild your engine, you are going to need injectors anyway.

I'm a tuner - I have a Stock RB25 and Garret 3037 pushing 314rwkw. SACK YOUR TUNER, and stop defending him. He's a liar and a cheat. I've dealt with plenty just like him.

oh and 370cc injectors are only good for a max of 230rwkw. Anything more, they'll leak, f**k up, and you'll blow your engine.

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