The Defected Thread...

[jrm]

All you can really do is try and keep your ride within the laws...

If you have obvious defects, you're going to get done. It's as simple as that.

If you want to stay entirely within the law, this will ultimately puts limits on outright power that's achievable without going through engineering & a full emissions inspection as you're not going to be able to replace/change turbos, upgrade injectors, replace AFMs, etc.

[sean133]

What exactly is engineering your car?? had a look on the site steve posted but what can they do I don't really get it? if your car has illegal modifications can they somehow make it legal? Or am I completely misunderstanding

[Rolls]

What exactly is engineering your car?? had a look on the site steve posted but what can they do I don't really get it? if your car has illegal modifications can they somehow make it legal? Or am I completely misunderstanding

You either prove the modifications already comply with ADRs or you alter them to comply with ADRs, hence showing that they are in fact already legal, or you make them legal.

[sean133]

Ahh... May have to look into it. alter as in how? how would you alter modifications like turbo (high mount too) or injectors to make legal?Would it mess with power and the cars tune

[Dohmar]

Ahh... May have to look into it. alter as in how? how would you alter modifications like turbo (high mount too) or injectors to make legal?Would it mess with power and the cars tune

anything to do with the engine must remain stock. when you change anything, its considered 'not factory certified by design' which means that the emissions laws come into effect

You can build whatever you want, if you can get all the supporting technical documentation to certify its safety and emissions (and probably other things - I remember reading a post SLED made about the rake of his bike, wasn't to spec by our laws so he had to redesign the front end which was a PITA - just to point out that there are laws but also a flexibility as I believe the SLED was fabricated from scratch. I could be wrong on that.

I remember theres a bloke who chucked a ww2 spitfire engine (24 litre rolls royce) in an old school american car and I >think< he even got it certified road legal (even though it did something like 2000 horsepower)

-D

[sean133]

ah ok cheers ben.

[kn6gtr]

yeah, they can pull u over because they "suspect" the car is defectable...

then if they cant find any obvious defects they can defect u for "suspicion" of modification to your vechicle...

[Dohmar]

yeah, they can pull u over because they "suspect" the car is defectable...

then if they cant find any obvious defects they can defect u for "suspicion" of modification to your vechicle...

this is true, but if you are 100% sure that they're wrong (ie its all legal and you have engineering certificates) then you take them to court and you get your expenses overturned, some pathetic amount to placate your inconvenience, and a rebuke to the officer in question.

Its like pissing into the wind, metaphorically speaking. You might prove your point but sapol, like any company, has a sophisticated pr division skilled in damage control. you'll hear something like 'said officers were stood down' which means theyre chilling behind a desk on full pay.

that said, if your car isnt roadworthy or uncertified, well I guess it could be argued they're working in your advantage. Hell, even the ford pinto was notorious for exploding in rear end collisions, yet it was still considered a roadworthy vehicle till it was recalled. Its all nonsense.

-D

[Rolls]

Ahh... May have to look into it. alter as in how? how would you alter modifications like turbo (high mount too) or injectors to make legal?Would it mess with power and the cars tune

You have to pass an IM240 test, it is a full spectrum emissions test, to pass it you need generally fairly low boost, and the AFRs have to be perfect, too lean and you fail on nitrogen compounds, too rich and you fail on carbon monoxide, you also have to pass on CO2 which is effected by how much torque the motor is making, eg boost.

So you need a tuner that is willing to do his best to get it right, then come along to the test and tweak it as you will most likely fail the first time. You get 3 shots I think, then another $1000 and come back another time. You also then need upgraded brakes for the extra power, they will need to do a lane change test, so you have to pay for a driver and track hire. It adds up fast, hence why so many people just go highflowed stock and keep the car looking stock so it passes with 300kw, it is easy to do, just no aftermarket looking turbos.

this is true, but if you are 100% sure that they're wrong (ie its all legal and you have engineering certificates) then you take them to court and you get your expenses overturned, some pathetic amount to placate your inconvenience, and a rebuke to the officer in question.

This is the only time it is worth challenging it, when you know the car will pass first time and it does in fact pass first time. Even then it is a huge waste of your time, but it will prove a point.

Edited November 22, 2011 by Rolls

[Krishy]

You have to pass an IM240 test, it is a full spectrum emissions test, to pass it you need generally fairly low boost, and the AFRs have to be perfect, too lean and you fail on nitrogen compounds, too rich and you fail on carbon monoxide, you also have to pass on CO2 which is effected by how much torque the motor is making, eg boost.

So you need a tuner that is willing to do his best to get it right, then come along to the test and tweak it as you will most likely fail the first time. You get 3 shots I think, then another $1000 and come back another time. You also then need upgraded brakes for the extra power, they will need to do a lane change test, so you have to pay for a driver and track hire. It adds up fast, hence why so many people just go highflowed stock and keep the car looking stock so it passes with 300kw, it is easy to do, just no aftermarket looking turbos.

I have not yet seen any highflow turbo's making more than 240-250rwkw.

[Dohmar]

I have not yet seen any highflow turbo's making more than 240-250rwkw.

Not a single setup, but GTR's can use the same housing, turbine specs and use metal rather than ceramic, good for up to 320kw apparently. In fact, any of the 2860 series of turbos can have a certificate stating that they are aftermarket replacements (MTQ does this I know) and I think they go all the way up toe 400 odd kw (which is pretty damn decent for an otherwise stock setup)...

-D

[Dunc]

I have not yet seen any highflow turbo's making more than 240-250rwkw.

Not to drag this thread too off topic but I know of several high flowed M35 Stagea turbos that have made in the region of 300awkw

[Madaz]

my high flow makes 240 AWKW on Willall's dyno @ 1bar on standard AFM and injectors

[Rolls]

I have not yet seen any highflow turbo's making more than 240-250rwkw.

Check the hypergear thread, he has ones doing up to 280 with the standard housings.

[Krishy]

Not to drag this thread too off topic but I know of several high flowed M35 Stagea turbos that have made in the region of 300awkw

Can you tell me the specs etc. I am keen on this.

Check the hypergear thread, he has ones doing up to 280 with the standard housings.

Oh yes hypergear. Their power figures are highly inflated. I ran one of their turbos from before. Great turbo just not making the power quoted

[hypergear]

Can you tell me the specs etc. I am keen on this.

Oh yes hypergear. Their power figures are highly inflated. I ran one of their turbos from before. Great turbo just not making the power quoted

Fortunately that sheet was sent from a customer, not a test car result. Have a read through the thread, every one made similar power figure as test car as long as they followed instruction guide and with the right setup.

I can high flow a stock OP6 turbo to make 300rwkws+. Except it drives like crap.

[Krishy]

So how exactly do you highflow a stock turbo with OP6 rear housing?

[hypergear]

Need to cut a chuck out of the rear housing, brace it back after machining, then stick in a baby trim 3540 size core, that makes 300rwkws+. Looking from out side its still a stock turbo.

[Krishy]

How much to get that done?

[Damo_R34]

How much to get that done?

Except it drives like crap.