Sr20 - Bearing Failure On The Dyno

[Liz]

I'm a little bit concerned about something that happened at a workshop the other day.

Bottom line is - my car went in for a tune and came out with a noise and the car is now virtually undrivable.

Here is the story.

I'd asked them to tune it and the mechanic listened to the motor and said he would like to take the rocker cover off because it's a bit rattly. Turns out the oil bars in the top were blocked and had caused the cam lobes and rocker arms to wear down significantly. The cam shafts, rocker arms, lifters and oil squirters were all replaced.

2 days later I take it back with the same noises and leave it there for it to get sorted and a tune if it's all ok.

A week later I call to ask how it's going, the mechanic said it's tuned. It made 120rwkw befor ethe tune and 155rwkw after the tune. Which is really strange because it went in there with 178. He said he didn't boost it because he was worried about metal shavings in the engine and that there was no way it had made 178rwkw previously. I go ok and head down to pick the car up.

I got given the keys (this is all relevant btw) and take it for a spin come back not too impressed, it's slower but tidier (afr's). The mechanic told me he did an engine flush and heaps of metal shavings came out of the motor (before the tune) and just at the end of the visit, I was told it was making a noise which indicates bearing failure that was probably due to the metal shavings. I got shown the noise when leaving the workshop.

If a tuner was worried about metal shavings in the motor, why would he tune it at all? The reasoning I got was "I had to make a decision as to what to do and the impression i got from you was you wanted it tuned no matter what, so I made a decision to tune it". Wouldn't it have damaged it either way no matter what psi it was tuned at?

I'm just confused, doesn't a workshop have a duty of care to make to make sure my won't fail no matter what their 'impression' was?

The question I want to ask is, would it be unreasonable for me to ask for them to pay for the damage to my motor?

[mico]

that is a tough one mate. you play you pay tho, there are never any guarentees with performance vehicles. i guess if the bearing was on the way out, maybe his safer tune actually will prolong the life of it ?

[Liz]

Nah it didn't prolong anything! See below!

Bottom line is - my car went in for a tune and came out with a noise and the car is now virtually undrivable.

[WARLORD]

Nah it didn't prolong anything! See below!

i think most work shops would not tune it if there was a problem un less he killed it on the dyno and then spun you a story.

this sounds like a more reasonable answer to me.

i don't mean to be rude but maybe cos your a women he b/s you...im sure its been done 1000 times to 1000 diffrent people.

[GOD12A]

Im with WARLORD...

Every tuning workshop i have used will never tune a car unless its mechanically OK to start with, even then, IF something happens on the dyno, they will stop the tune there and then.

I have had slight fuel issues on a dyno within the first few runs and the tuner pulled it off the rollers without charge and told me he wouldnt tune it until the issue was fixed (it was a NA bucket, so it wasnt a case of life or death like a turbo motor)

The car came out with less power and a bung motor... Hrrmmmmm, goodluck with that.

See what the workshop has to say for themselves, if its resolved nicely, praise them, if it isnt, publicly shame them...

Mark

[Butters]

doesn't a workshop have a duty of care to make to make sure my won't fail no matter what their 'impression' was?

No they don't.

About the only time you can claim an engine death is if you get the workshop to build, install and tune it.

Also sounds like your oil pump might be on way out or sump pan is crushed up to the oil pickup.

Anyone put an oil pressure gauge on it ?

[Pal]

did you sign anything, a piece of paper saying if anything happens on the dyno, its not the mechanics fault?

we have to do this on this side of our lovely country. if it goes bang then to bad

[Guilt-Toy]

there is no warranty on any kind of performance work. full stop. Even if it did pop on the dyno... if the engine died a week after you got it tuned then you still have to fork out for a build... Just move right along and build up a nice engine and try and forget this ever happened.

Thats motorsport

[Liz]

there is no warranty when it comes to performance work?

since when!!!? They don't have insurance for nothing!

You're a tuner right? Is what you're saying that when you tune a motor and it pops, you wash your of it and take no responsibility at all? Love your ethics!

The way I see it is if you go to a reputable tuner, he should have the knowledge of how these things work so if something goes pop, then he can say he did absolutely everthing he could to stop it!

If a tuner can't work out what will make the motor fail, it seems to be a pretty fundamental requirement of a tuner, no?

I don't expect a tuner to tell me when an oil pump is going to fail, but something like bearing failure after tuning a motor knowing it has metal shavings in it, in my opinion is not giving me the proper duty of care. Taking a care off the dyno and saying "I won't tune this, it has metal shavings in it" is giving hte proper duty of care.

[TAKUSHI]

mmm ive had a 180 come into my workshop before, for the same prob, oil feed lines blocked

now because it was a gradual wear on the cam, the oil didnt show signs of metal shavings

sounds to me like they've given your sr a "bloody hard time" and done what my mate did

who kept his engine above 7000rpm alot of the time, that resulted in the start of a knock

which ended up a loud very disturbing knock and the car wouldnt even hold idle

all up i'd say their f#@k up for sure

[Beer Baron]

it's a tough one. it sounds like perhaps they would have been wise to not go ahead with the tune after discovering a problem. but on the other hand it doesn't like like necessarily the tune caused the problem. it sounds like it had the problem already due to the problems with the oil blockages and metal (bearing material?) in the oil. so in fact had they stopped before the tune and given you back the car it would still have had the problem you have now.

I reckon if you can get them to come to the party at least a bit with say a reduced bill or something then you are in front. most workshops would wash their hands and say tough. we have to see it from their point of view too. I'm sure there are times people have rocked up with poorly maintained and poorly modified cars that are in bad shape and just waiting to fail, then the workshop gets it, puts it on the dyno and it (surprise) fails. then the owner tries to accuse the workshop of breaking it, when in fact it's not their fault at all. I'm not saying at all that is what happened here, I'm just saying that is why workshops behave the way they do, and why they cannot take responsibility for a failure unless they built the thing from scratch, and even then there is no way they can know how a car/motor is treated once it leaves their shop. now having said all that of course they should take all care possible to get the best outcome for their customer. hence the saying: "all care, no responsibility", sadly that is about the best we can ask for from most shops. hell it's better than "no care, no responsibility" which is what we get half the time!

I say build it up, and enjoy a faster, stronger, more reliable package. thankfully being a 20 you only have 4 of everything!!.

[STATUS]

To clear everything up this was at my workshop, i proudly stand by EVERYTHING I DO and is one of the reasons im happy to post this instead of hiding.

In fact i went way way outta my way to help LIZ as it seemed she had been fleeced at other workshops (i even charged WAY under normal Rates) i took photos of the cams etc and sent via email explained everything upfront, but liz's car for want of a better term was a basket case and i tried to make the best of a bad situation for her. TO BE HONEST i feel as though ive been setup....

Posting this will no doubt bite me on the ass but it seems everytime you bend over backwards to help someone it ends in tears.....

NOW on the first visit i refused to put it on the dyno as the engine was noisey in particular the head, the top end was thrashing itself to bits (engine was generally noisey)... (inlet cam was missing a lobe) we replaced the cams with 2nd hand low kay s15 units, new lifters and rockers and spray bars, did not have time to put it on the dyno so it came back a week or so later.

Car came back for a tune, pulled the rocker cover to asses if cams etc were ok... did a full flush and oil change (including magnetic oil filter) to make sure any metal residue floating around from previous damage got flushed or caught.

Put it on the dyno with stock ECU, AFR's on the dyno were 14:1 under full throttle (pulled power run early) .... dangerously lean... so this car was running lean for how long ? i pulled std ecu fitted PFC and did all the cruise and low end stuff, pulled a power run and noticed a rattle, pulled it off dyno and left it at that.

this is the only complaint i have ever had and is is far from my fault.

Edited December 15, 2008 by URAS

[Liz]

Sorry you feel like I'm setting you up Trent.. but to be honest (as you know) it's not a topic I know alot about and what you said to me didn't make sense so I'm a bit suss now.. hence starting this thread to get the opinion of the wider audience.

I'm yet to hear enough that satisfies my mind that everything was done properly, perhaps communication is the key here because it's only (after the test drive) where I was told about this! I find it a bit off putting and it makes it look like there is something hidden.

If you were worried about metal shavings, you should have called me and given me the opportunity to say, don't tune it rather than go ahead as from waht you told me, it was rattling on the first run but you made the decision to tune it.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

tbh it sounds like it was gonna die one way or the other liz

[Pal]

with that much metal running around in your engine, i think that motor was stuffed no matter what. loss of power would have possibly been from the engine being made richer = safer. rebuild and be happy.

[TAKUSHI]

ah k after hearin his side i remove my last comment

[Guilt-Toy]

this engine may have had a bad bearing for a while now, even just a quick oil change to the best quality oil you can get is enough to make a suss bearing collapse.

Its time to move on and build a bigger and better engine!

I know its upsetting and hard when your engine is gone and you have to fork out a heap for a rebuild, i have been there and then i had to pull that out and fix it again!!! (no fault of my own, no one claimed fault and i was left to foot the bill)

At the end of the day it will all work out once the new engine goes back in.

try and make a good situation out of a bad one.

[tacker]

No one is going to get any joy out of this thread. I am sure that Trent would not have put it on the dyno if there was any doubt. Very silly business model to do so.

Wouldnt every tunner like a crystal ball to see what is going to happen in 5 mintues time.

A sad as it is, looks like this poor old SR20 was halfway to meeting my 3 RB26 engines in skyline heaven that came to a bad end

[Liz]

At the end of the day it will all work out once the new engine goes back in.

try and make a good situation out of a bad one.

yeah might just just another stock engine in..... or will i ?

with that much metal running around in your engine, i think that motor was stuffed no matter what. loss of power would have possibly been from the engine being made richer = safer. rebuild and be happy.

then if everyone else here is aware of the consequences of tuning the motor with metal in it, why didn't my tuner make me aware of what would happen?

that's all I'm saying.. perhaps if he had communicated exactly what he said here I wouldn't be quite so suss about everything as what was posted here isn't what I was told.. perhaps he forgot. If it had died mid-tune as you mentioned earlier, why didn't you just tell me that, I'm pretty damn trusting (even too trusting) when it comes to mechanics, but when i hear something that isn't quite right, I am suss as.

[Guilt-Toy]

yeah might just just another stock engine in..... or will i ?

then if everyone else here is aware of the consequences of tuning the motor with metal in it, why didn't my tuner make me aware of what would happen?

that's all I'm saying.. perhaps if he had communicated exactly what he said here I wouldn't be quite so suss about everything as what was posted here isn't what I was told.. perhaps he forgot. If it had died mid-tune as you mentioned earlier, why didn't you just tell me that, I'm pretty damn trusting (even too trusting) when it comes to mechanics, but when i hear something that isn't quite right, I am suss as.

Yeah half the fun is deciding what to do next and ordering the goodies..

Once your engine gets full of shavings there is nothing else you can do but flush the engine out properly and then hope for the best, the other option is pulling the engine out dismantle it and rebuilt it.

SR20's are not known as being a long lasting engine either.. how many k's on it ?

second hand engine is a good idea somtimes, but you want to stop the problem you had in the first place.. who says your not going down the same road in 6 months time with a different tuner?

Do it properly the first time and reap the rewards..

good luck with it.. try and cheer up a bit.. it could be worse.