Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[Birds]

Oh and after I get my SS1PU tuned on PULP, I'll be seeing what E85 can do in the top end for the response monster

[rondofj]

I went with the G3 because it makes more torque at each rpm increment than the SS2, and it makes more power under the curve (don't just look at boost or response here, the G3 is making more power everywhere than the SS2). The SS2 only catches up in the higher rpm to make the same power, the G3 beats it everywhere else, even if it's only just.

On Stao's results anyway, I haven't got those results yet.

Attached Stao's graph of G3 vs SS2,. they are so identical - I do not look at the boost response as you saying - I look at the power it is making at rpm points - 2000rpms, 3000, 4000, 5000... At the first three points the SS2 is clearly making more power hence more responsive and better for the street, but the G3 catches up around 5000rpms at 260ish rwkws and beats the SS2 from there but not by much. The SS2 also makes significantly more torque at these points too and peak torque is hardly different between the two.

So I still dont understand why the G3 is more popular with you guys apart from the cost..

[rondofj]

The first graph is G3 and the second is SS2

[Hanaldo]

Haha yes, it's like that now. Read back through the thread, there have been multiple changes to the G3 and SS2 that have affected their power curves since I bought mine, the graphs you are comparing are the latest ones. I will see if I can find the graph that I used to compare the two when I bought mine. The G3 kills the SS2 for peak torque however you look at it though, not sure what you're going on there.

One of the other main reasons I went with the G3 is because I track my car, so heat is a very important factor for me. Stao mentioned that the G3 was not getting hot at all during tuning and he was running it as high as 23psi. For sure I would have gone the SS2 if my car was purely a streeter, but I took different things into account such as the high rpm performance of the two, heat factors, etc. etc.

Cost was also a factor I'll be honest, Stao sold me the G3 that came straight off his car for the same price I was able to sell my old G2 for, so the swap cost me virtually nothing.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Hanaldo

[rondofj]

so heat is a very important factor for me. Stao mentioned that the G3 was not getting hot at all during tuning and he was running it as high as 23psi. For sure I would have gone the SS2 if my car was purely a streeter, but I took different things into account such as the high rpm performance of the two, heat factors, etc. etc.

Makes sense now - G3 would be better at consistent high rpms/ tracking due to bigger exhaust housing (laggier?)...Cleared that up for me now thanks - as for peak torque G3 vs SS2 = 514Nm vs 497Nm - hardly much to go by..

[rondofj]

I meant the bigger housing is better in terms of heating up less easily than the smaller SS2 housing...

[Hanaldo]

I'm more worried about heat soak and super-heating of the intake charge. When you're at a consistent high rpm (I don't think I was ever below 4500rpm on my last time out) around the track there is obviously going to be a lot of heat. As I don't have an ECU capable of pulling fuel/timing based on intake air temperature, I wanted to avoid super-heating the air and causing detonation.

[rondofj]

Does that mean the SS series turbos SS1, SS1PU and SS2 are not ideal for tracking due to their tendencies to heat up real quick (small exhaust housings, high boost etc) at constant high rpms??

[rondofj]

Stao might invent an independent electric powered 'turbo-fan' that sits on the strut tower wall and blows directly at the turbo to cool it..lol

[Hanaldo]

I wouldn't go as far as saying that, but the name SuperStreet sort of gives an indication as to their intended use don't you think?

The SS series is more than likely fine for the track, I'm simply paranoid I looked at two turbos with very similar performance, one looked more suitable than the other for what I wanted so I went with that.

Don't forget that these turbos are forever changing and gettin better though, it's like buying a mobile phone. You buy the top of the range model when it first comes out and 6 months later it's redundant. My reasons for buying the G3 possibly don't apply anymore.

[siksII]

Ive been away since the start of this year so did not have time to troubleshoot my lack of power and finish the tune with my SS1PU. Finally back home and having the car sorted out tomorrow. With some luck I hope it wont be too hard to work out the power loss issue before completing the tune.

Any more?

My car is on the dyno right now. Major boost leak was caused by the rubber intake manifold gasket... cant wait to see how it goes.

Does that mean the SS series turbos SS1, SS1PU and SS2 are not ideal for tracking due to their tendencies to heat up real quick (small exhaust housings, high boost etc) at constant high rpms??

I bought the SS1PU specifically because Stao said its a cool running turbo, good for the track. Hopefully this is really the case.

[GTScotT]

I think the SS1PU is a good thing all round, stao has put some hard effort into it and it works well.

looking forward to your results.

[Rolls]

I bought the SS1PU specifically because Stao said its a cool running turbo, good for the track. Hopefully this is really the case.

Temperature is a function of boost remember so even if you get the smaller rear housing turbos as long as you don't try and push 25psi through them on the track on BP98 you will be fine.

Ultimately setting up your ECU with coolant temp and intake temperature fuel and ignition trim is the ultimate way, even better if you can trim boost as well!

That way you can tune it to run 25psi on the street and as soon as it starts to get hot on the track the ECU will automatically adjust to keep it safe.

[SargeRX8]

Ive noticed the effects of heat soak on my car but that is generally after big drives(2hr+) on hot days. Not so much detonation rising etc but just doesn't feel as... oomphy when shit gets too hot.

[Rolls]

That is just heat soak killing performance by heating the intake charge. You won't notice heatsoak in the turbo etc, you will just be slowly removing your margin of error for detonation until it gets so hot you detonate, and you don't always hear detonation as well so be careful.

I always advise people to do two tests, one is on a warm day eg 28c give the car a good flogging then immediately stop without cooling it down and idle around at 10kph for a good 10-15 minutes getting massive heat soak, then go rev out 3rd gear once again without cooling it down. If it is going to detonate due to intake temps it will do so then.

The next test is to just do high load dyno run over and over again to get the turbo/manifold red hot. This will also usually cause detonation if you have a small turbo that really chokes up.

[siksII]

Result for my SS1 PU are in:

Overall its not bad but not the best

-Peak power 244kw

-Makes about 200kw at 4000rpm (good, expected)

-Boost goes from 21psi in midrange to 17psi in top end

-Tuner reckons something is holding it back since its doesnt make that power in the top end easily however he is not sure what it is

-Tuner reckons that it comes on too hard with the current actuator so they had to massively reduce timing (which he is not happy with) so it would not ping in the mid range

-If they use the EBC at all there is too much boost low down so they are not using it

-If it had a lower pressure actuator he thinks they could run lower boost and more timing down low, then higher boost up top and more peak power

I will pick it up tomorrow morning, tuner had not yet driven it when i spoke to him.

He thinks it will feel very fast and pull hard so it may not be worth chasing more top end.

[Rolls]

Sounds like you could really unleash its potential with E85 if it runs so much boost it has a tendency to ping down low.

[hypergear]

The ss1pu has a pretty large turbine housing, that model gains response from fnt turbine and lightened billet machined comp wheel. It was pretty happy on 22psi on mine, shouldn't have any issues downlow. Might be interested to find out what's holding it back. ill have a chat with Trent regarding to the tune experience, Keen to see few more results. Also i can supply a 15 psi actuator to run ebc with if you are keen to twick it bit further.

[Manuel Kasko]

Stao should I be expecting my SS1PU to show up tomorrow?

[hypergear]

Yeswas sent out Wednesday. Should arrive tomorrow.