Good Tow Cars?

[hrd-hr30]

power has nothing to do with towing capacity. I've seen a surprising number of X Trails towing some serious boats and vans around.

But I bet the CVT model has a much lower tow rating, as CVT's generally are pretty dodgy on their own...

[Marlin]

Harry's right, a good tow car is typically something that outweighs what it is that it's towing. Still leaves a slight question hanging over the XTrail imo.

Torque and weight is what you want, torque (at low revs) is especially important when what you're towing has some serious windage, such as a van.

[vesh]

I went off the best information available

But since you're selling a track only R32 GTR that "has not yet seen a track " and...

...it seems to be a reasonable assumption in the absence of any better information. Certainly no worse than your assumption about X-Trails at any rate, eh?

but anyway, even if its not an R33 GTR, it's a pretty safe bet that it fits somewhere in between that and the lightweight car and trailer example I also mentioned...

You really do have nothing else better to do, dont you?

Reason why it is a track only R32 GTR is because it is not complied. If the buyer wants to comply the car and drive it on the street, then go for it.

I mentioned X-Trails as I saw about 6 of them last time I was at Sandown, I wasnt saying that they are a good tow car nor was it an assumption.

[warps]

I concur on the Xtrail. Wouldn't tow anything bigger than a box trailer with one. I used a forester XT to tow the rally car a few years back, and it was never comfortable with that much weight behind it (about 1500kg. Trailer weights 600kg and car about 900). The forester had a rating of 1800kg, but wasn't happy even with the 1500kg behind it. Oh, there was plenty of power, and I had no trouble on hills / overtaking caravans etc, but it always felt like the trailer was pushing the car around. Xtrail is more fragile, much worse dynamics and less powerful. I wouldn't dream of towing with one.

[samstain]

power has nothing to do with towing capacity. I've seen a surprising number of X Trails towing some serious boats and vans around.

Exactly, the reason you see a lot of X-trails towing is they are about the cheapest new car you can get that is some what practical as a daily driver and tow car - not many people these days have room to store a daily driver (or 3 for the wife and kids) + tow car + race car + trailer, and the only other option in that price range is a poverty pack falcon/commodore which aren't as practicle in town if you have a few kids and the dog on board.

Yes they are very underpowered (which is why I spent 10k more for a Grand Vitara) but if you are only towing your car 50k's to the nearest track 4 times a year it managable. And if you think they are underpowered, one of our old farm trucks is regstered to tow a 24T trailer (about 36T combo), and it would barely have as much power as the X-trail, though being diesel its happy to pump out all of its 120 odd kW 24/7 rather than for 10 seconds at a time.

Towing capacities come down to chassis strength, braking capability, and the strength of the driveline. Even though a manual commodore/falcon only has 2/3rds the towing capacity of the auto verison, they should be just as safe towing. Its simply comes down to the fact they don't want a heap of warrantly claims from drivers that don't know how to tow with a manual car, so they de-rate their capacity.

Interestingly my insurance says if you overload your car and are involved in an accident they will only not pay out if the overloading was a contributing factor - though im not keen to try this out so ill stick to towing legally with my 2000kg rated car.

Edited June 8, 2011 by samstain

[hrd-hr30]

You really do have nothing else better to do, dont you?

Reason why it is a track only R32 GTR is because it is not complied. If the buyer wants to comply the car and drive it on the street, then go for it.

I mentioned X-Trails as I saw about 6 of them last time I was at Sandown, I wasnt saying that they are a good tow car nor was it an assumption.

cool story about the R32, but I only mentioned that because it shows its was unlikely to be the one you wanted the tow car for... not that I see why what you're towing is a big deal in the first place!

And I have NFI why you'd think you were saying X-Trails were good tow cars. I wasn't either, but I was saying they were rated to tow 25% more than the Commodore.

[benm]

ability of the chassis to safely haul the weight is FAR more important to a good tow car than power or torque.

Totally agree, a big 4wd is always ideal but at the time i bought my ssv a big 4wd just wasnt justified both as a work and tow car.

If things ever got too dangerous i'd just starting using my Hino work truck for towing.

[PHaT MR30]

Harry's right, a good tow car is typically something that outweighs what it is that it's towing. Still leaves a slight question hanging over the XTrail imo.

Torque and weight is what you want, torque (at low revs) is especially important when what you're towing has some serious windage, such as a van.

Ok so I checked and im pretty sure CVT X-Trail is rated to 2000kg (same as the manual)

What I can't figure out is my falcon (manual) is only rated to 1600kg, has more torque and weighs more? (autos can do 2300kg, with a HD towbar).

The only thing I could possibly put it down to is clutch?

[Marlin]

Yeah I remember ready it was to protect the drivetrain from warranty claims. Lowest common demoninator users......

[hrd-hr30]

yeah, clutch, gearbox, and to a lesser extent diff - manuals are harder on diffs than autos.

the current falcon range has the base manual at 1200kg, turbo manual at 1600kg and autos at 2300kg with load levelling device

pretty sure the larger diameter 18 or 19" wheels also reduced rear axle load limits and towing capacity.

Edited June 9, 2011 by hrd-hr30

[Marlin]

Yeah took me a while to find (from memory) a 107+ load rated 22" tyre for my tow car.

[boxheadmr]

yeah, clutch, gearbox, and to a lesser extent diff - manuals are harder on diffs than autos.

the current falcon range has the base manual at 1200kg, turbo manual at 1600kg and autos at 2300kg with load levelling device

pretty sure the larger diameter 18 or 19" wheels also reduced rear axle load limits and towing capacity.

Yeah i don't think it's not the 18in (not sure on the 19's) as on my car it is still rated at 2300kg with the HD tow kit.

[KezR33]

Hey guys,

I've been looking to sell my Supra and buying a daily capable of towing and a track car. I've been looking at BA Falcons (6cylinder) and I'm probably getting an R32/180sx.

After reading this thread I'm having second thoughts about the Falcons ability to tow. I claims it can tow 2300kg, but I'm guessing it'll weigh quite a bit less than a trailer + 180 (or worse R32). I'm hoping to get a wagon, so I can easily load all the spare tyres, tools, etc into the car.

I'd be hoping to get out 4-8 times per year, and each trip would likely be at least 3hours as I live near nothing. Would you do it, or am I better off saving and waiting till I can afford something a bit bigger - or just buying a nice daily to occasionally track (as I've done with the Supra).

When driving cauiously (leaving a large space between cars, driving late at night/early morning to traffic, driving slower if need be etc), what dangers do I still need to look out for? I think I understand how towing a heavier weight behind me could be hazarous, but I don't know. My education about towing pretty much consists of watching Fast Five and we all know how easily they can tow a vault around!

Cheers.

[samstain]

^^ An auto falcon will do it fine - and all legally as long as you fit the heavy duty tow bar.

It helps if you have your own trailer, as you can keep it in much better condition than a hire one, get the balance consistent, and they can generally be built a few hundred kg lighter.

Hire trailers are generally only rated at 1990kg, and often weight 700kg+ empty, so 1300kg is as much as you can actually carry on them. 50% of the time though you will see an 1800kg falcon/commodore/magna/SUV on them which is illegal. I have even seen some idiot try and tow his rodeo on one down the southern expressway behind his Magna - though at the time he was jack-knifed off the side of the road with the magna half way up the embankment of the underpass, so I guess he learnt his lesson.....

If you get your own trailer you can generally aim for 550kg or so empty, a stripped out 180 is often more like 1100kg so you will be doing it easy, even with a spare wheel rack and a tool box you can keep the trailer under 2000kg all up - if you have a stock R32 you may have to loose the rack and or put spares in the boot of the tow car, but you should still be able to keep it under 2000kg - there are different braking requirements for the trailer once you go over 2000kg.

As for the safety of it all.... get the balance point right, make sure the trailer its in good condition (brakes are working, tyres in good condition - preferably light truck ones not retreads, axles are straight) and it should happily tow at 100k's no problem. The only other thing is perhaps look at some better springs/shocks in the back of the tow car so that you can put a decent ball weight on it without it dragging its arse.

Edited June 10, 2011 by samstain

[boxheadmr]

i have the hd tow set up on the falcon and towed as far as phillip island and back a few times and then wakefield/EC a lot with no dramas at all. The trip to melb was with 2 mates and myself in the car and full of tools/luggage. The falcon is also popular with grey nomads towing caravans as well.

If the car is set up well there is no reason you cannot tow the rated weight with no problems.

[KezR33]

Just curious, how much does a tow car cost to hire? If I get right into the track I'll eventually buy my own, but I'll probably hire the first year at least.

Also, has anyone used tow trucks before? I remember some guy turned up to Winton with his car on a small truck. Was so neat and simple. I'm guessing you'd need a special license, and would cost significantly more to hire.

[samstain]

small trucks (under 4.5T from memory) can be driven on a standard car license - and that doesn't include the trailer... so you can actually drive a light truck with one car on the back, and other on a car trailer behind.

The problem with hiring is you might find it hard to find one you can actually get your car on the back - generally they have to be customized with a beaver tail and ramps that go down to your trailer like this...

Edited June 11, 2011 by samstain

[Risking]

Trucks have pros and cons just as trailers do.

I've just bought myself a 6.5L turbo diesel truck with a 9tonne GVM, 6 speed.

It's already set up a a transporter with a hydrollic tailgate loader, tool boxes and storage etc. Fully enclosed water proof rear. I sold my tow car and trailer which funded the truck, my licence, rego and plenty left over to fabricate a new alloy loader deck, under truck storage and underneath tire racks as well as a split diff if it needs it.

There are some bargain transporters out there which people have spent heaps of money on.

[nismoman]

I went for a BA LGP Falcon Wagon. It is an absolutely awesome tow vehicle and doubles up as my family car.

Cheap to buy, service and own.

Lucky for me it already had a HD tow bar fitted. I just recently added some helper springs to the rear to help prevent sagging.

Very happy with it, does everything with ease.

[PHaT MR30]

Yep helper leafs definately make a difference, we added some to our old XE wagon which is solely a tow car and it made a noticable difference.

If you are set on a falcon and are going to use it for towing, i'd strongly suggest upgrading the brakes. The aren't good at the best of times, start towing and they hate life. Don't have to go crazy, but a set of slotted DBA's and some good pads will set you back under $500 and be up to the job.