$1700 Fine And 6 Month Suspension ...yippee

[B. J.]

I was done a few months back (may) for 142 in a 100 zone, a mate and I were headed back down the Pacific highway north of Kempsey and witnessed a car go into the trees on the median strip, I turned around where I could (mate is a senior officer in RFS) and hoofed it back up the road while calling the RTA accident report line... didnt know the seriousness of it at the time so didnt go with 000.

over a crest, cop on the side of the road, 'FUUUUUUUUUUUU...' he pulled me up, first thing he said is "ive got you on LIDAR video mate, you were doing 146kph" which I thought was odd, coz I was only in my R31... 145kph is a fair speed in the old girl (although I found out at Oran this weekend that 165 is acheiveable down the straight) He didnt ask why I was speeding, when I told him there was an accident up ahead and we had turned around to assist he said "there is no accident, i was up that way 10 mins ago" he handed me the fine and then came back to say there was an accident... it was just called in..

long story short, Its gone to local court up in Macksville 2 times now, first was adjourned because I applied to have the hearing moved so I could attend it locally, its a 1500km one way trip for me to go up there...but that was denied. So it was heard again, I contacted a local solicitor and he helped me draft a stat dec, and my passenger also provided one... I recently got a letter stating that it was going to be investigated by the police prosecutor in order to " verify the veracity of 'the incident'... " (veracity = truthfullness) so its being heard again in early november for sentencing.

I face, from what I've gathered, 3 months and a $680 fine... which is weird compared to the story above... I'd say 'my' cop doesnt have as much proof as he would like... I just hope I keep my licence and have the charges thrown out, I've only ever had 1 other speeding fine (I'm 26) and one minor traffic infringment. (no points, $75 fine)

I'll put it this way, its the last time i'll be helping out at an accident scene, which is horrible to think, but why risk being punished for trying to help someone in need. Which is an offence in itself

Strange that they got you for 142 as well... Good luck with it, but I cant see it being overthrown...

[fatz]

take it to court

when they whip out the video of your car cracking 146, at least you got to see it for the 1700

ask for a copy before paying said fine and court fee

[gizzmo]

Get a radar laser detector from Western Australia still legal over there...

[QUICKY]

reason yours is 3 months and 680$ fine is because ur 30km and over. its when ur 45km and over that its an auto 6 months (including court case) and $1700 fine

[Wacky Dee]

Get a radar laser detector from Western Australia still legal over there...

are they legal to use in nsw? would definately be a worthwhile investment when I get my license back

[DaveO74]

I "think" they are still illegal in NSW. They were banned in (Someone correct me if im wrong) mid 90's and that ban still stands????

[Wacky Dee]

hm yeah I seem to recall reading the same but I'm not sure if that was merely in reference to their sale OR use (or both). Some of these things are crazy accurate and can sniff out any radar operation with a couple of Kms down the road...I'm sure if they were legal they'd be a standard factory option by now

Quick question ...am I allowed to drive the car on a track/skidpan with no drivers licence?

[DaveO74]

I do remember the po po had the radar detector detectors when they were starting to enforce it. Wether they still have these things is the question.

[Kujotk]

I "think" they are still illegal in NSW. They were banned in (Someone correct me if im wrong) mid 90's and that ban still stands????

100% legal in WA, 100% Illegal everywhere else in Australia, but i did some research into it when i lost my lisence (as you do) and there was a guy in Queensland selling them aswell for some reason.

Anyway its not worth it, highway patrol currently have radar detector detectors, also if they use the laser and you have a laser blocker, well its a bit obvious why they can't lock onto your car aswell lol.

But there are a few very expensive (a year and a half ago anyway) that couldn't be detected by NSW current radar detector detectors, not sure if cops have upgraded but thats something to look into aswell, but if your doing more than 30km/hr over the speed limmit there is no way you will be able to slow down in time once your radar detector activates, although you might have time to slow down to a smaller offence

[reaper]

Quick question ...am I allowed to drive the car on a track/skidpan with no drivers licence?

as long as you still have a track license (cams, asaa etc) then you will have no problems

[MBS206]

as long as you still have a track license (cams, asaa etc) then you will have no problems

Depending on the event he won't require any licence.

[Bakes]

Go to court, plead guilty but state that you have a great record and had 1 stupid moment. Plead that you need your licence for work and ask to do the Traffic Offenders Program. (Its 2 hours a week for 8 weeks)

You may still get the fine, but you may get out of the suspesion. You may get out of the fine also. You may get out of nothing.

It depends on the judge!

[RB25PWR]

I wouldn't bother going to court, you have no case. I mean what are you going to say? The judge won't care if someone in front of you was going 80 and you 'gave it a quick squirt' or whatever, that's still speeding ie: breaking the law. The judge will probably give you a longer sentence. Also radar detectors are illegal in every state apart from W.A, you can face fines up to $1050 and an additional $1050 if you refuse to surrender the device.

edit: And yes, the HWP/TMU have radar detector detectors... what's funny is that they make the radar detector detector from the units they seize from people lol.

Edited October 25, 2009 by RB25PWR

[msnismo]

The 6 months is a mandatory RTA imposed suspension and is immediate... this is also the minimum that any judge can impose if found guilty of exceeding the speed limit by 45km/h or more.

If you elect to go to court, you will then be able to see the in-car footage if you plead not guilty, but not before... as this will be part of their brief of evidence which will need to be sent to yourself/lawyer. They will show this in court only and not before. My other half has great experience with court and fighting fines and RTA stuff ups

If you plead guilty you can request to see the footage but more than likely won't get it as you have plead guilty and there is no need for them to provide the evidence. The only reason for pleading guilty would be to reduce the monetary fine as the 6 month suspension is mandatory as per the RTA and also the minimum for this offence which the judge quite often increases anyways.

All in all its more than likely that copping the fine and loss of license is in your better interest. If you plead not guilty it ill be at least 6 months later before the matter is finally heard, & more than likely end up with a bigger fine and longer suspension. Especially if the in-car footage shows with out a doubt that you were doing that speed. Then there are the court costs on top as well.... there are only ever a very small percentage of people that go to court and win and whilst this is possible, the outcome is more than likely not going to be favourable.

If after all you are certain you were not doing more than 29km over the speed limit (mandatory loss of license limit is 30km/h) and do elect to have it heard in court, definitely ask for a copy of the Fact Sheet from the police prior to entering your plea. This takes around 2 weeks from the date you request it and take it to a traffic lawyer to look over and determine if you have a chance in fighting this prior to entering your plea. Traffic lawyers also know which courts are harder on speeding offences etc

[DECIM8]

Biggest two issues you have in the detection of speed is the movement on the diagonal (lane chanes) which will increase your speed rendering the lidar ineffective and also the second issue of two other cars in line of sight which is against "requirements" to enforce a offence. You have to be the only car on the road at that time (within reason, distances etc) and locked on for 3 seconds.

The in car camera will be the best form of action as it can show the situation.

I would talk directly with 4teecal as he's quite gifted with knowledge in this area.

[MBS206]

Biggest two issues you have in the detection of speed is the movement on the diagonal (lane chanes) which will increase your speed rendering the lidar ineffective and also the second issue of two other cars in line of sight which is against "requirements" to enforce a offence. You have to be the only car on the road at that time (within reason, distances etc) and locked on for 3 seconds.

This is the case with RADAR, it is not the case with LIDAR

Also, in car camera may have picked up SFA since they were backed up in the bushes etc...

[R34Liner]

yeh I really don't need a lecture mate .. I was overtaking morons who were driving UNDER the speed limit in the right hand lane for like 3 Kms. I only overtook them when they finally decided to merge left. Gave it a quick stab to put them behind me so I don't have to deal with THEIR dangerous driving. I went back to left lane as soon as it was safe and dropped to 90.

That excuse is as stable as your concept of rational thought 'mate'

[Wacky Dee]

thanks for all the tips guys .. I've given up on that aussiespeedingfines.com crap as it's just that crap and i've been reading http://trafficlaw.com.au/ which is a traffic barrister and all his stuff sounds way more plausible etc

From what I've gathered so far there is no point in trying to try and DEFEND myself as the chances are 99% I will be found guilty and cop the fine and suspension as it was + court costs. From what I've read it's best to try and find an issue with prosecution's case/evidence/footage etc and poke a hole in it just big enough to create reasonable doubt and the magistrate can dismiss the case.

I'd be interested to know where you read about the ineffectivness of radars in measuring speed accurately during lane changes, with cars around etc. I will need to collect as much of this information, not from kook sites but legitimate sources, in order to prepare my case.

I will be sending in my penalty notice tommorow and requesting a court date ..that way I will atleast receive a summons and charges from police and know exactly what I'm up against.

Is there any way to get the 'brief of evidence' before they present it to the cort? Can I adjourn the case (repping myself btw) after seeing/requesting a copy of the brief of evidence presented by the police prosecutor ??

Also what's with all the people saying I'd cop a longer suspension/bigger fine if I plead not guilty and am found guilty ? From reading trafficlaw.com.au (written by a melbourne traffic barrister) the magistrates aren't venguful mofos and won't try and 'teach me a lesson' for taking the matter to court. According to that guy the most likely outcome if pleading not guilty (and losing) is simply additional court costs which are < $100.

[MBS206]

Also what's with all the people saying I'd cop a longer suspension/bigger fine if I plead not guilty and am found guilty ? From reading trafficlaw.com.au (written by a melbourne traffic barrister) the magistrates aren't venguful mofos and won't try and 'teach me a lesson' for taking the matter to court. According to that guy the most likely outcome if pleading not guilty (and losing) is simply additional court costs which are < $100.

Bahahaha... You're joking right? They quite frequently hand out higher fines/suspensions to people for trying to get out of large speeding offences...

[Wacky Dee]

The max financial fine the magistrate can give me is $2200 which is f**k all more than the $1744 I'd have to pay anyway. So where do you get YOUR information from ?

Sure if you think you're a sickunt and can go to court and blame everyone and be an arrogant prick about it and cuss at the popop and judge, I can see how the magistrate might impose a higher fine/suspension. But their job is to be objective not to side with police from the get go and dish out unreasonable punishments to otherwise law abiding citizens. It's not like I'm a "habitual offender" or like I have a criminal history. If the magistrate is an absolute twat there's always automatic appeal to higher courts which can roll back the suspension/fine to the original if they find the magistrate was unreasonable.

So once again, where do you get your info from ? I haven't been living in a cave and it's the same 'urban myth' I've heard from many people, none of which ever had ANY dealings with these matters whatsoever eg. my dad, my brother all of whome just reckon "please guilty or they're gonna rip you a new one" like the system is set up to f**k with normal people who find themselves in a difficult situation.