Slight Mods

[terry.m]

Hey all,

I am relatively new to the turbo scene. I have always had an interest but my current 33 is the 1st turbo I have ever owned. Reading thru the forum, I come across a lot of acronyms like ‘s-afc’, etc , I am slowly figuring them out

Following I are a few questions I have. Your replies are very much appreciated

When I got my 33 (Stock as a rock), I couldn’t believe the power (You may laugh, but coming from an N13 Pulsar 1.6L U have to understand). However, the power is very easy to get used to so it’s time for some more…HuHuHuHu! The most that I have done is put in a K&N replacement air filter and reset the ECU.

Now I’m by no means a rich man, I am currently saving up for a HKS or Trust 3” exhaust, High Flow Cat and 3” dump pipe.

From your experiences, what would be the rough power gain from this exhaust modification?

Does this exhaust mod increase turbo boost?

I would really like to boost my 33 as well (not too much as I can’t afford a front mount intercooler). What is the cheapest way to do this, should I take my car to a turbo specialist?

There are many threads that mention a ‘s-afc’ (Apexi) – Is this something I should seriously consider purchasing – does it increase power?

Now I have a question about the standard boost gauge. You all know it ranges from –7 to +7 (I have know idea what it means but anyway…excuse my ignorance) When I give my car some stick, the most the needle will go is just above half way between 0 and +7…is this normal? I sort of figured that if the turbo was achieving full boost (stock) it would sit at +7.

Thanks again for your replies.

[funkymonkey]

The more flow your turbo has, the better it'll work, but don't expect miracles on a stocker, maybe 10-15rwkw at best. I reckon its the best option since you'll need a larger exhaust further down the track if you want to upgrade your turbo etc. You don't even have to go for brand names, any exhaust shop can make you a similar performing exhaust cheaper, just make sure they're all modular (like the HKS and trust models) and not all welded together for ease of use later down the track.

s-afc's don't increase power, it better manages the power you have. Its fully tunable and allows you to tweak every parameter of your car's ECU. (Its basically a replacement ECU for your stock one, not like the usual interceptors n piggybacks). Not sumfin you'd wanna look at unless you've got a bigger turbo, intercooler etc.

I think your boost gauge shows you how many PSI your turbo is producing. Or was it Hgmm... nah must be PSI.

edit: er... just realised i mixed up Power FC's n SAFCs... ummm disregard that last bit... n listen to Merli... he's been around long enough to know

[Merli]

Terry,

As Funky said, you'll gain about 10-15rwkw from a full exhaust, and because it's more free flowing, it poses less of a restriction, so the turbo does make a bit more boost (1-2psi more).

S-AFC (Super - Air Flow Convertor) allows you to tune your air fuel ratios. What does this mean? Well there is a magical ratio between air and fuel, that gives you the most power.

Too little air, and your engine loses power and detonates (bad thing).

Too much fuel, and your engine loses power too, but it protects the engine somewhat from detonation.

From factory, Nissan tunes the cars to run rich (too much fuel) to protect the engine, but this robs the engine of power. They are WAY too conservative with their tuning, and by using an S-AFC, you can "correct" the fuel map in your car so you lean it out a bit and gain somewhere between 10-20rwkw with it.

The other thing you can adjust is the ignition timing map, but you'll need to get a PowerFC for that, which can do BOTH the fuel and ignition timing maps, making the S-AFC redundant, so choose carefully, and choose once

The biggest cost in modifying cars is buying the wrong thing, then having to replace it later.

[Birnie]

Your car does run at 7psi of full boost (after 45000rpm). The half way mark is correct. But the +7, -7 is not psi. And not 'bar', i forget what it is, someone else will fill the gap.

Cheapest way to obtain boost is the old Gated Boost Valve. Only around the $100 mark and cheaper ones around here to if you're patient. Just remember to get an after markey boost guage to monitor boost properly in case of too much boost.

[Merli]

The -7/+7 gauge is in 100 mmHg.

That is, millimetres of mercury.

Yes, I'm serious, and no, it's not commonly used, even in Japan, so I don't know why Nissan chose to use it.

the "+7" -is in units of 100mm Hg (mercury), so the +7 = 700mm Hg, which is equivalent to 13.5psi.

[funkymonkey]

yer thought it was sumfin like that... that's the stuff they use in barometers innit?

[terry.m]

Oh OK...well that makes sense. If +7 = 13.5 and the needle is half way, all is good and running at stock boost (6 - 7 odd psi)

Merli,

I looked into those PowerPC units. Very impressive but $1500 (ouch!). The write up I read said that it can adjust boost pressure. Can this be done electronically? I thought that it could only be done like what Birnie suggested with a mechanical valve.

Thanks for your help guys this is great...keep it coming

[Merli]

The thing about PowerFCs is, they're a straight plug and play, meaning it's a 5 minute ECU replacement. Being a piece of electronics, and such an easy installation, second hand versions are pretty much always 100% working, and as good as new.

So perhaps try and pick one up second hand?

Another option is to buy one from Japan for a bit cheaper than that

[hippy]

terry, i was in ur position a year ago ... well heres my advice ... since i was in a position like you and i wanted mods but didn't have all the money ... the exhaust is a good choice, since u've already upgraded the air filter. after u put in an exhaust ... a full one that is ... not just cat back ... u will notice ur boost level very just slightly increasing ... only slightly ... however the main diff is how fast it reaches boost ... by 2500rpm .. feels much better ... then after that get a bleeder if u want a cheap option ... it will remove the 2 stage ... boosts much faster ... then after that consider the safc if you want moderate power like me ... under 200rwkw ... its a good option ... also consider an fmic somewhere in there as well ... i'm just happy with the stocker so i'll keep it

[Merli]

Jesus.

Is your Enter key broken?

[akeenan]

get a full exhaust and increase boost plus buy an safc..

you can get a custom exhaust done instead of buying brand name JP ones. with the money you save you would be able to increase boost and possibly buy an safc.

You will like the extra power,.... for a while.

[paulr33]

> Hey all,

> I am relatively new to the turbo scene. I have always had an interest but my > current 33 is the 1st turbo I have ever owned. Reading thru the forum, I come > across a lot of acronyms like ‘s-afc’, etc , I am slowly figuring them out

Welcome

> Following I are a few questions I have. Your replies are very much

> appreciated

> When I got my 33 (Stock as a rock), I couldn’t believe the power (You may

> laugh, but coming from an N13 Pulsar 1.6L U have to understand). However,

> the power is very easy to get used to so it’s time for some more…HuHuHuHu!

> The most that I have done is put in a K&N replacement air filter and reset the > ECU.

Lots more power than a non turbo car, you've got 187kw at the flywheel

> Now I’m by no means a rich man, I am currently saving up for a HKS or Trust

> 3” exhaust, High Flow Cat and 3” dump pipe.

> From your experiences, what would be the rough power gain from this exhaust > modification?

Don't get a HKS,Trust exhaust if you are lacking funds. Go down to your local exahust shop and a get a quote for a 3" full exhaust system. I got quoted $920 fully installed. The HKS equivalent will be like $1300, yes its probably slightly better but your paying for a brand name.

> Does this exhaust mod increase turbo boost?

It will by 1-2psi as the turbo can release its pressure faster

> I would really like to boost my 33 as well (not too much as I can’t afford a

> front mount intercooler). What is the cheapest way to do this, should I take

> my car to a turbo specialist?

You can get a turbosmart dual stage boost controller for around $200.

In cabin (next to the handbrake or on dash) switch to go between a LOW boost mode and a HIGH boost mode. IE: normally run at 7psi and when you switch it run at 10psi.

Your current R33 boost level is about 4psi from 3,000rpm upto 4,500rpm. Then past 4,500pm it's 7psi. So even a constant 7psi from 3,000rpm will be an improvement. Don't run above 11/12 - heed this warning

> There are many threads that mention a ‘s-afc’ (Apexi) – Is this something I

> should seriously consider purchasing – does it increase power?

SAFC for around $450 odd. It will manage your air and fuel ratios. Normally when you go pasr 4,500 the ECU has to add sufficient fuel to match the turbo airflow, it does this very good, however not perfect. A tuned SAFC can increase your throghput by around 10-20rwkw (depending on tuner etc)

> Now I have a question about the standard boost gauge. You all know it

> ranges from –7 to +7 (I have know idea what it means but anyway…excuse

> my ignorance) When I give my car some stick, the most the needle will go is

> just above half way between 0 and +7…is this normal? I sort of figured that if

> the turbo was achieving full boost (stock) it would sit at +7.

It's in mmhg. 3/4 of that guage is around the stock boost level for r33

> Thanks again for your replies.

Have fun

[terry.m]

Excellent responses guys, thankx heaps.

I’m glad that my current boost pressure appears ‘normal’.

I’ve been beaten a few times at the lights by my mates ‘boosted’ MR2, an EVO and another 33 that obviously had mods (More likely due to the fact that I can’t drag for shit…I always end up sitting there spinning wheels…I don’t bother anymore :~).

Hey, I understand where you are all coming from with the exhaust, I’ve just had some bad experiences with ‘custom’ jobs. I used to have an R31 and wasted a lot of money on 2 systems with crappy workmanship. I used to work as a fitter and turner so I know what I’m looking at. Obtaining good quality workmanship and advice in the exhaust industry in Adelaide is hard to find. The 1st system I bought was absolute crap! The welds weren’t complete and sealed resulting in leakage and the drone in the cabin was unbearable. The 2nd was done by one of the most expensive joints in Adelaide, this was just as bad. My car had to go back 3 times to have the bend over the diff corrected so it would hit when going over bumps. 5 Years ago they were charging $20 per mandrel bend…God only knows what they are charging now.

If I still had access to the tools and machinery, I would do it myself

When I look at a HKS or Trust system I see high quality welds and materials, perfect mandrel bends and I guess that you could guarantee that it will fit properly as it has been CAD designed specifically for the car.

[benm]

I'd suggest not getting the PowerFC or S-AFC until you have done all of the basic cheap mods; Full 3" exhaust, boost controller, air filter, ex cam gear, fmic. Then get your aftermarket computer and get a well known tuner to do all the tuning at once. This will save you money in the long run and also give you the best power output with the new mods.

My other suggestion would be to grab a beer and spend an hour reading through the 2 threads below as they contain alot of good cheap ideas/mods to help make your car quick rather than quick but with a low response.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...read.php?t=9292

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...read.php?t=9445

[Cubes]

I personally wouldn't have wasted money on a pod filter as they do sweet f*ck all. I had mine on a dyno making 164kw at the wheels. One power run with a K&N Filter and another with the stock air box and filter.

No power difference anywhere in the rev range.

Apparently the stock air box is good for up to 400hp before it begins to pose a restriction.

Instead of spending $$ on a K&N pod it will be better spent on a gated bleed valve, bump boost up to 10-11psi and it will keep you happy until you get the 1k or so for an exhaust.

Get the exhaust, re-adjust the bleed valve so you are running 10-11psi. Much more boost and you will begin to need some sort of fuel/ignition computer as you will get power dips as you accelerate (power is strong then power feels flat then picks up again)

Then a fuel computer or PowerFC. Personally I would save a little more and pick up a PowerFC for around 1k.

I can pick up an AP Engineering PowerFC for a R32 RB20DET for $1500 delivered to my door. Look else where if that is the price you have been quoted for a R33 PowerFC.

Once the PowerFC is in get a FMIC and enjoy 190-200rwkw and a mid 13 sec 1/4 if you can drive.

Here's what I've spent on mine so far in order of purchase.

Custom S/Steel 3" exhaust, resonator & large polished muffler with a 3" s/steel tip (stocker look) - $1700

Hi/Low Bleed Valve & dyno check - $250

Bar & Plate 580hp Front Mount Intercooler & dyno check - $1400

Bosch 910 External Fuel pump & dyno check - $300

Blitz SBC-iD EBC & Dyno Check - $800

and soon..

RB25DE head reco & port/polish - $1850

RB30E Short motor rebuild + goodies - $3200

HKS 3037ProS Turbo + 10mm Spacer - $3100 (Maybe still researching)

I don't think I want to keep going as I don't want to know how much....... tooo much especially when I start skimping on tyres just to get the darn motor in.

[terry.m]

Do you get much power increase with a boost controller and rasing op to about 9-10psi?

Is it still OK to do so with a standard exhaust and intercooler?

[Cubes]

Bang for buck the gated boost bleed even with a stock IC and exhaust will give you the best power gain.

I have no idea how much but it will get rid of that 2 stage boost that will increase the mid range power by quite a bit. The stock 2 stage boost is killing your mid range acceleration.

Get the bleeder. Slap it on a dyno set boost to 10-11psi and see if you can pump a few degree's extra of timing in to it.

The bleeder should cost around $100 and the dyno costs around $140 per hour. The main reason for the dyno is you don't want the car pinging and or leaning out. The extra $70-$140 spent now could save you in the long run.

Also a lesson learnt for me was to NEVER put a bigger fuel pump on your car unless the stock one can't handle the power being made. I was making 152rwkw on 12.5psi of boost with an exhaust, stock ic, stock airbox/filter. I fitted the bigger fuel pump and af'rs went hell rich, I lost close to 15rwkw, It was 138rwkw from memory, it felt sluggy & used more fuel.

[Revhead]

Agree with Joel - the wastegate bleed was the best mod I did to my car. It massively fattens the midrange, making the car much quicker in real-world driving.

Joel - did you check the fuel pressure after the pump change? Swapping the pump out shouldn't cause problems by itself, but if the rail pressure goes up as a consequence the car will run like a bag of crap.

[Cubes]

Before the fuel pump the car was running in the mid-high 10's after the fuel pump it ran in the 9's.

Its pretty much a known thing that if you slap a bigger fuel pump in the lines they will run hell rich especially up top.

[Merli]

Errr... A fuel pump upgrade isn't a bolt-on upgrade guys... You need to retune the car to suit, so you'll need a PowerFC or S-AFC before you do this.

And Joel, I'd suggest an ECU upgrade before you delve into head work and RB30s