Dedicated Track Cars

[KezR33]

Hey guys,

I'm at a crossroads with my current car situation. I want to sell my NA Supra and buy an S14, simply because I can't justify spending money on an NA Supra that will require ridiculous amounts of money to become a TT model (brakes, gearbox and engine).

I would like to get out to some track days (so far I've only done two DECAs), but again I'll need to spend quite a bit of cash just to get my car up to a track standard, mainly improving the brakes. So, as I said I'm trying to decide whether to get an S14 daily, do some basic mods (mostly suspension and some good tyres) and track that occasionally, or ditch the Supra, buy an old R31 daily, a trailer and a dedicated track car.

The benefits are obvious, if I bin the track car I can still get to work and Uni in the R31, and it won't be such a financial loss. Plus I can probably get tons more out of it than my daily (S14) just by stripping it. I can also bypass the P plate restriction laws which state I must drive a car under the 125kw per ton.

The downside is I will have two cars to maintain, I'll suffer a loss in daily driving comfort and my cheap daily will likely be far less reliable on a day to day basis than my newer, well maintained S14.

Is it worth it? My assumption is that dedicated track cars are going to have the guts flogged through them, so whilst they might be unregistered and cheap, they may not last long at all.

How much does it cost to maintain a dedicated track car? I'd probably do most of the general maintenance myself, but other there other costs I might be unaware of?

Has anyone taken this route on a limited budget? I'm by no means poor, I actually make a lot more than the average student, but I'm not swimming in cash either.

Is it actually cheaper to take this path vs. the single occasional track daily?

How much do trailers typically cost? They seem to range from $1000 to $2000.

Finally, what car would you recommend for a track rookie who is looking for something with moderate power, not overly expensive and an excellent car to learn in. Ideally I'd want to track it and I'd like to give drifting a go too, although I'm unsure how much I'd enjoy it.

Thanks for any advice guys.

[benm]

Most of it depends on what actual track car you decide on as to how much it will cost to maintain. The less it weighs and the less power it has the cheaper it will cost to maintain.

I went the dedicated track car way and to be honest i've had it for a year now done 4 trackdays and a skidpan event and felt so guilty about not having to do anything to it at all that I topped up the oil just for the hell of it.

[zebra]

If i were to do it all again.

I wouldve stuck with my 1st gen rx7, light, cheap and plenty of parts avalaible.

and after spending saturday fanging an mx5 around I realise that big, heavy, powerful cars are nothing but trouble unless you have big bucks to run them (or even get them finished as im finding out)

[KezR33]

I actually really like the sound of an MX5 with some work already done to it, perhaps an MR2 or even just a CA18 Silvia.

Like I said, something with a bit of go, but more something I can control and just to learn how to drive.

[esky_mad]

go the track option. track cars arent used anywhere near as much as daily cars so theres no reason they cant last for a long time. and it does also depend on what kind of car you'd be looking at ??

[warps]

Tough question.

Dedicated track cars are fantastic for that very reason - you can set them up properly (safety and performance gear) without having to compromise on comfort / legalities. Also, if you bin it, you can park it in the shed till you get around to fixing / wrecking it.

The overall cost is probably higher as you will need a second car, as you siggest. I'd consider an R31 as the very minimum in terms of size for towing a track car (might even be on the small side). DOn't fall into the trap of towing something too heavy with a small car. Apart from legalities, you will be driving an unstable death trap, and will wear the car out very quickly. Falcadores are good for this as they are rated to tow up to 1800kg or so (check the model you choose) and usually are rugged enough to tow well.

Car trailers aren't cheap for a decent one. Expect to pay at least $2k for a decent condition one that has everything you need. Forget single axle trailers unless your track car is a super lightweight (at 800kg or less). On that note, a light track car will not only be easier on the wallet to race, but also easier to tow (can get away with a smaller trailer too).

As far as track cars go, the S13's seem to be a great choice for low budget racing. Throw in a cage, strip it out and start adding suspension, steering and braking upgrades that are all readily available off the shelf. Otherwise you can buy a ready to go track car - usually cheaper to get into it, but you could be inheriting someone else's problems.

There's a guy in Victoria selling a 13B Dato 1600 track car at the moment for about $9k (check the Ozdat classifieds). This wouldbe a good starting point - plenty of power, reasonable setup and plenty quick enough to have some serious fun. Of course, the SR / FJ 1600's are also a good choice, but I'd personally stick with the more modern S13's or R32's, as parts are infinitely more available.

Having said that, there's a new series of standard Huyndai Excels doing the rounds at QLD tracks (not sure about other states). These things are dirt cheap to run, are surprisingly quick (some are flogging skylines at Lakeside) and the owners still come waway with a huge smile on their dial. YOu don't need a massively powerful race car to have fun. In fact, you will learn more about being quick in an underpowered car.

[zebra]

YOu don't need a massively powerful race car to have fun. In fact, you will learn more about being quick in an underpowered car.

Best advice ever!!!

I learnt way more driving a standard mx-5 around a tight track than I would ever learn trying to punt the skyline around any track quickly.

[Roy]

The benefits are obvious, if I bin the track car I can still get to work and Uni in the R31, and it won't be such a financial loss.

Thats my answer right there! Seriously, if you are still studying, then provided your Supra is in decent condition then just take it to the occasional track day and punt the thing. I 10000% believe you will be a better driver if you learn how to drive something like an NA Supra, decent in the chassis so you learn the art of balancing a big heavy car but not with so much power that it will hurt you, always overheat, chew tyres and pads. Cost a fortune in fuel. And you wont be spending all your spare time preparing it, working to mod the other car. Fixing the broken down R31. Your studies cost enough money and are hard enough without throwing cars into the mix.

Seriously, i have binned cars at tracks, but i am in the minority, have been very unlucky but basically i am also a farking idiot who probably overdrives too...just because its so much fun to wrestle a car and not give a shit about lap times.

[KezR33]

Yeah I have considered keeping the Supra.

I just feel bad spending 1-2k upgrading the brakes when I could just sell the thing for something better.

[hrd-hr30]

Hey guys,

I'm at a crossroads with my current car situation. I want to sell my NA Supra and buy an S14, simply because I can't justify spending money on an NA Supra that will require ridiculous amounts of money to become a TT model (brakes, gearbox and engine).

I would like to get out to some track days (so far I've only done two DECAs), but again I'll need to spend quite a bit of cash just to get my car up to a track standard, mainly improving the brakes.

I thought the NA Supra had the same 2/1spot brakes as the early TTs? If so, you don't need an expensive brake upgrade for track days. Half decent pads and you're away. I used cheapo Lucas/TRW pads and normal DOT4 fluid in my TT and they were very good. At all sorts of tracks, QR, Lakeside, Eastern Creek, Wakefield, Oran Park. Only ever got any fade after about 15 minutes around Oran Park GP. And stopping power was very good too. Better than the S14 4 spots in my 180SX by a fair margin. And way better than the brakes my R32 GTR was. In a less powerful NA Supra, they'd be more than up to the job.

I'm going to give a different answer to the others (edit: looks like Roy beat me to it). I've done both the track only car a few times (Datto 1200s, Sil80) and dual purpose cars (R32 GTR, JZA80 Supra, and now 180SX). Its definitely cheaper with just one car and I haven't had any reliability problems with them. I drove the Supra Brisbane to Sydney a few times for track days down there. It was a sweet handling car with just a set of Tein Flex and the most aggressive alignment possible from the standard adjustments, and cheap kumho KU36 tyres. It was a fantastic car to drive! I did more track days in the Supra than any of my track cars and it never missed a beat! I kinda regret selling it actually. I doubt you'd get any reliability issues at all with a NA Supra. Just get out there and enjoy it.

Also, if you were planning on towing the track car with an R31, forget it! I had an R31 about 6 years ago and towed my empty car trailer to go and collect a new mattress once - even my light (540kg) trailer was pulling the poor old thing around all over the place. I would not tow a car with it! You won't get a towbar rated high enough anyway.

[N1GTR]

If you've got the same brakes my 94 TT supra has, yes they are complete shit (they handle deca well enough for me but winton was another story until it had good pads and discs, then all fine, doesn't stop like alcons of course but it stops), but the supra is such a nice car!

While I agree on a budget something nimble and light is the smart way to go, I'd put some decent front brakes on the supra (2k from justjap sort of things), and go with that. You already own it, know some history etc and the cost of brakes can be offset by the extra transfer fees you'd have to pay if you sold and bought different cars

have you looked on my105.com? Lots of track cars there, something may popup you like

[KezR33]

Yeah I've currently got Kumhos on the car.

How much did your brake set up cost? I've got 2/1 pot brakes too, and my mechanic is claiming to survive a track like Sandown I need Endless Green and Red pads and slotted rotors. Reckons it'll cost $1700 all up.

I've heard A1RM are good bang for you buck, but my mechanics claims they tend to crack when going hot, cold, hot at the track.

[Roy]

Do you still live at home? Do you have the space for a trailer (rego) another car (rego) and the track car? I tracked my std GTSt for 3 years, all it had was an exhaust, a filter and Whiteline kit. The 3rd of those years it also had a front mount. But didnt at first. I used to flog it and even when the engine light came on i used to go for another lap until backing off. Std cars ARE the best track cars.

It was only when i started throwing turbo setups at my car, bigger brakes, oil cooler, engine fires, walls, semi slicks at my car that it all became expensive and confusing. The engineering of what makes them work interests me so since nobosy lets me play with their car i play with mine. But std is great if that doesnt appeal to you, you just like driving

[R31Nismoid]

The downside is I will have two cars to maintain, I'll suffer a loss in daily driving comfort and my cheap daily will likely be far less reliable on a day to day basis than my newer, well maintained S14.

How is a R31 Aus delivered not driving comfort and unreliable?

Parts are EVERYWHERE... cheap as chips as well. R31's are pretty well reliable for their age to be honest.

As long as you find one in resonable condition (make sure suspensio bushes & diff are not flogged out totally), then you should be perfectly fine.

Ye they might not go as fast as a S14, but in terms of seats, A/C and so on - i wouldn't say the S14 is leagues ahead. It's just newer.

All Nissan electrical items are poor.

AFM/CAS etc, no model of Nissan has been particularly reliable and the S14 is 14yrs+ old as it is so it'll still potentially suffer from the same issues a R31 will and be more expensive to replace such parts.

Plus 31s get chicks wet. Just ask Pete, he'll tell you.

I think the two car route is the best option given your circumstances.

[BezerkR32]

mate, i honestly find that my car spends alot more time in the garage than on the track, and being unregistered means i cant participate in cruises or texi days etc which is a shame. The guys that have mildly modified street cars seem to have alot more fun. Take Liz for example, she has been at every event i have ever been at, and probably another dozen ontop. Its a mild 180 with the right mods for track work and she always has a ball, and the car always behaves.

I dont think i will get the full benefit out of my car until i start racing it in a series where i get it out at least every one to two months. And thats where the expense will come in, tyres, fuel, event entry etc.

everyones situation is different, but for me personally i wish i had something a bit milder that was registered so i could enjoy it more.

[Marlin]

Having said that, there's a new series of standard Huyndai Excels doing the rounds at QLD tracks (not sure about other states). These things are dirt cheap to run, are surprisingly quick (some are flogging skylines at Lakeside) and the owners still come waway with a huge smile on their dial. YOu don't need a massively powerful race car to have fun. In fact, you will learn more about being quick in an underpowered car.

lol, great post Warps but I have to qualify the "some are flogging Skylines at Lakeside" bit..... they're only faster than the WORST driven Skylines you've ever seen.

[warps]

lol, great post Warps but I have to qualify the "some are flogging Skylines at Lakeside" bit..... they're only faster than the WORST driven Skylines you've ever seen.

Haha yeah - why let the truth get in the way of a good story? As they say, there's lies, damned lies and statistics.

It's the same with the rally excels - I've seen them comprehensively spank WRX's in rallies too. Then you look at the drivers and start to understand why. Still, soesn't detract from what a surprising little package they are for the money. They seem to be taking off in the rally series and I haven't heard too many owners come away saying "gee, these Excels are boring"

[Marlin]

lol, yes there's lots of cheap fwd cars suitable for tracking, we're currently messing around with a '93 Trueno 20V which I think once we drop and stiffen it will be great. The Excels are already owing most Queensland campaigners 3-5k which I think is far too much. Our Trueno owes well under 4k, registered, seat, harness, tyres, pads, etc.

[badhairdave]

Liz's car didn't always behave

If you haven't even done a track day then you should not be thinking about a track only car, regardless of of the costs.

Who says your car isn't track ready? I said that for 3 years, kept adding mods to my r32, and when i finally did get out on the track i discovered it was rubbish and had to make significant changes to quite a few things to get it behaving. Money and time wasted.

I would say take your car out now. Check your pads, bleed your brake, do an oil change and go. Worst case you'll find the limits of your brakes and tyres.

Don't spend 2k on brakes, don't buy semis, just enter an open day and drive it.

Once you have a couple of days under your belt, have a think about how serious you want to get.

Personally, I had a street/track car, i binned it, parted it out and bought an unreg NA s13 to get back out there, which eventually got turbo'd. I hire trailers as i don't have room to store one so it's a bit pricey in that regard, and i have a work ute that can tow it so that's basically free. As with bezerk32 i miss not having a mild streeter to have fun in so i am in the process of putting one together. It won't be as fast but it'll be fun and less hassle to get places.

[funkymonkey]

Never track your daily, because if it breaks then you won't be able to get around. If you do get a dedicated track car, make sure you have space to store a trailer, and a daily driver that's capable of pulling a full car trailer and car and spares.