Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

also, no way SSE were using teh NAWS. They just don't need it for one thing. they already have anti-lag and a great big turbo on there. if they need more power they just up the boost. I don't think they'd be interested in nos anyway as there is a big trade off in that you have to carry the bottle, lines etc round the whole track but only use it for a quick blast down the straight. they are very weight conscious to the point they don't have airjacks on the car, instead they use clever little pit jacks that go under each wheel (which cyber saw last year and copied for this year!). very clever.

if that's not enough I spoke to the cars and personally looked over the car (amazing car) and there's no nos on it. they can't run it in the US comps and can't run it in aus either so why would they?

the car definitely had more to give but they actually suffered a gearbox problem in the final session which robbed them of the chance to go for a quicker time.

take nothing away from cyber though. those guys are amazing and tarzan is one hell of a pilot.

REALLY, Do they talk back?

This thread is now full of useless haters... seriously STFU if you dont like it go buy a Garret like every other "puppet"... i sure as hell dont mind and im sure "the keeper" will still be smiling :P

From start till now I've been wanting to see good results from the things, I was very seriously looking into heading towards an EFR for my own car but am just calling it like I am seeing it and hoping someone will counter it.

Pretty sure these are the results I've come across, in summary:

EFR6258 - 2 different dyno results (one is a pair on a GTR, other is on a 4cyl), one failure

EFR6758 - 2 different dyno results

EFR7670 - 1 dyno result, 1 failure

EFR8374 - 2 dyno results

EFR9180 - 2 dyno results, 1 failure

And huge delays, all around. All those cases can be verified with some time and cunning use of Google, I've heard people refer inspecifically to other failures or cases where they have been used but not added them to the count due to it being very inspecific. By stating what I've seen, as I've seen them... good or bad - I'm not a hater, it is what it is. If there were heaps of awesome results, I'd be raving about the awesome and be getting called a fanboi.

Theres nothing stoping a company producing their own parts and using it on their own cars in race events is there? Like no legalities similar to whats stopping production of these things?

I am of the firm opinion that BW just needs to get their own 'on road' test team happening and thrash the guts out of the things day in day out.

I fully take on board what The Keeper has noted regarding using race teams, HOWEVER truly believe it would be better done themselves. I mean, Nissan didnt build an R35 then give it to Gibson motorsport to report back on.. They built it, beat the porsche, then gave it to Gibson (it was red) who later had to give it to the HOMOSEXUAL ADR lot who crushed it (as with all first test models imported from overseas are - yes they crush the first R35 but not the first faggotdore).

Now go tell BW to test it themselves then give it to an aussie so we can also try it out and crush it when were done, F**K.

/end rant/

OK I am sure there was a post elsewhere which made it seem like the R32 had Garretts on it - are there any dyno results for it? Does the owner of it have any thoughts he can add on the change from the Garrett to EFR equivalents?

sorry, wrong R32. the R32 I supplied the 6258s for is not the Advan/Hi-Octane R32 (which does still have 2860 -5s on but is going to an EFR set-up soon), it's another car. it's the BPG R32 owned by John Bright. no graphs yet but he might give me some I can post soon.

Theres nothing stoping a company producing their own parts and using it on their own cars in race events is there? Like no legalities similar to whats stopping production of these things?

I am of the firm opinion that BW just needs to get their own 'on road' test team happening and thrash the guts out of the things day in day out.

I fully take on board what The Keeper has noted regarding using race teams, HOWEVER truly believe it would be better done themselves. I mean, Nissan didnt build an R35 then give it to Gibson motorsport to report back on.. They built it, beat the porsche, then gave it to Gibson (it was red) who later had to give it to the HOMOSEXUAL ADR lot who crushed it (as with all first test models imported from overseas are - yes they crush the first R35 but not the first faggotdore).

Now go tell BW to test it themselves then give it to an aussie so we can also try it out and crush it when were done, F**K.

/end rant/

I think they are doing both. I know BW is testing them internally and also getting them out there. in the end they need feedback from users to make sure they have got it right. I'm glad they do as that's how we learn how they perform in the real world from people not employed by the company making them.

From start till now I've been wanting to see good results from the things, I was very seriously looking into heading towards an EFR for my own car but am just calling it like I am seeing it and hoping someone will counter it.

Pretty sure these are the results I've come across, in summary:

EFR6258 - 2 different dyno results (one is a pair on a GTR, other is on a 4cyl), one failure

EFR6758 - 2 different dyno results

EFR7670 - 1 dyno result, 1 failure

EFR8374 - 2 dyno results

EFR9180 - 2 dyno results, 1 failure

And huge delays, all around. All those cases can be verified with some time and cunning use of Google, I've heard people refer inspecifically to other failures or cases where they have been used but not added them to the count due to it being very inspecific. By stating what I've seen, as I've seen them... good or bad - I'm not a hater, it is what it is. If there were heaps of awesome results, I'd be raving about the awesome and be getting called a fanboi.

yeah I wish I could tell you something good but as it is right now my advice is just sit back and wait a bit more (i know that's been said before) and just see how it shakes out. things are moving along and the results will come.

I dont recall anybody calling the product crap. If they get it sorted i have no doubt it will be the best thing since sliced bread. Particularly after speaking to people who have had limited experience with it.

Whats out there may be prototypes to you but these turbos were released at sema 8 months ago. Key word being "released" albeit prematurely as it turns out.

I've had my say on it. Lets wait and see if and when they get it on the pile.

It is pretty funny really as in the last 2 years I have been involved in a very very large German OEM manufacturer (bigger than BW) that had pre-released a "product" that was really still a prototype. And man was that not the biggest cluster for our company! Product failures, and failure to supply... then in the end they would not supply because they knew the product was so bad.

Anyway, as I understand it these turbochargers were designed with special care as far as turbine and compressor wheel matching and turbine housing sizes. Is there still a necessity for a surge ported compressor housing? Considering it does take a bit of efficiency away at the top end. Or was the decision to port the housing done as a precaution?

ok, here's something that should make some people happy.

RESULTS!

This is a graph for a R32 GTR running twin 6258s on twin full race manifolds. It's a 100% circuit car and competes in a whole range of stuff. it's been developed over a number of years and is a pretty good package. Built 2.6L RB26, hollinger sequential, big brakes etc, running a link ECU on E85 and tuned here in Sydney. It originally had garret 2860 -5s and made good power. with a move to more circuit stuff (used to do some tarmac stuff if memory serves me) and the quest for more power some 2860 -10s went on. it made a bit more power but the lag wasn't great and it suffered the usual turbo shuffle/surge problems at low RPM/high TPS% stuff (ie coming out of slow corners on the track with the throttle nailed). as a result it wasn't nearly as sharp coming out of corners as it was on the -5s.

The owner was about to go back to -5s for Superlap but asked me what I thought about these new 6258s. We had a look and decided they were worth a shot. There were some dramas with fitting etc (never been fitted to a 32 before) but once fitted and sorted the results were good. For reliability sake (given the current issues with wheels etc) boost was pegged at ~20psi and for superlap down to 18psi for safety but it made more power everywhere, with less boost. Once the wick is wound up to 25psi+ they should really hum nicely. Please take the outright numbers with a grain of salt. this car with the -10s made over 400kw on another DD dyno but this is where it was initially run so it was back on the same dyno for tuning and this makes the comparison valid.

enjoy the graph which was kindly provided by the cars owner, John.

r32built26w6258s.jpg

I'm just hoping for a 7670 next year. As long as they have it sorted by then I'll be happy. No need for twin scroll since it is RB25 - but it would be nice to have the option.

First up I think EFR should suspend taking orders until they can be filled promptly.

That looks like 22kph lower onset of boost - is this about 800rpm? (4000rpm vs 4800rpm?)

Either way it's a shedload - is the response even better than -5 ?

Edited by simpletool

looking at the graph it's pretty cool to see it hits 23psi at 95km/h vs 23psi at 125km/h with the -10s!

at 112km/h (around 4,000tpm I think) it makes nearly double the power! from 210hp to 400hp!

John said the car felt amazing to drive. just hauls out of corners now. I watched him at a few places at it certainly was quick in a straight line too.

it's now making over 400kw atw even on this fairly conservative dyno. another measure of it's performance is the fact John did a 1:40 flat at superlap despite no aero at all and no time to set-up the car etc before hand. just a basic tune on 18psi with the new turbos.

Pretty good result I think.

That's a good looking result, Response much earlier than the -10's and made more power.

They do look to be the go on an RB26 looking for more power than the -5's.....I would love to see a set on a RB30!:thumbsup:

Wouldn't mind seeing a back to back of these and the 8374 on the same car!

yep both plots on same fuel, same tuner, same engine, same cams, same car etc and in similar weather and same altitude. as far as I know NOTHING was changed except the turbos. even has the same exhaust (new dumps obviously), same intercooler etc.

they do pretty much exactly what I had hoped. better than -10 power with better than -5 response (well certainly equal to -5). I'm really keen to see them on more boost.

yep both plots on same fuel, same tuner, same engine, same cams, same car etc and in similar weather and same altitude. as far as I know NOTHING was changed except the turbos. even has the same exhaust (new dumps obviously), same intercooler etc.

they do pretty much exactly what I had hoped. better than -10 power with better than -5 response (well certainly equal to -5). I'm really keen to see them on more boost.

Why the reason for twins over a single i.e. equally sized EFR single to achieve power target? As you said would be a big headache to fit it all.

yep both plots on same fuel, same tuner, same engine, same cams, same car etc and in similar weather and same altitude. as far as I know NOTHING was changed except the turbos. even has the same exhaust (new dumps obviously), same intercooler etc.

they do pretty much exactly what I had hoped. better than -10 power with better than -5 response (well certainly equal to -5). I'm really keen to see them on more boost.

Exactly what we found with these turbos, and again ZERO surge/shuffle.

Exactly what we found with these turbos, and again ZERO surge/shuffle.

Before I quote myself again in a single turbo application is there a need for the surge ported compressor housing or was it a precaution?

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Hey Dave, welcome aboard! Good to see another soon-to-be Stagea owner here. The wagons are awesome — plenty of space, still got that Skyline DNA, and loads of potential if you’re into mods. Definitely post up pics when you get it, everyone here loves seeing new builds. What model/year are you looking at?
    • See if you can thermal epoxy a heatsink or two onto it?
    • The other problem was one of those "oh shit we are going to die moments". Basically the high spec Q50s have a full electric steering rack, and the povo ones had a regular hydraulic rack with an electric pump.  So couple of laps into session 5 as I came into turn 2 (big run off now, happily), the dash turned into a christmas tree and the steering became super heavy and I went well off. I assumed it was a tyre failure so limped to the pits, but everything was OK. But....the master warning light was still on so I checked the DTCs and saw – C13E6 “Heat Protection”. Yes, that bloody steering rack computer sitting where the oil cooler should be has its own sensors and error logic, and decided I was using the steering wheel too much. I really appreciated the helpful information in the manual (my bold) POSSIBLE CAUSE • Continuing the overloading steering (Sports driving in the circuit etc,) “DATA MONITOR” >> “C/M TEMPERATURE”. The rise of steering force motor internal temperature caused the protection function to operate. This is not a system malfunction. INSPECTION END So, basically the electric motor in the steering rack got to 150c, and it decided to shut down without warning for my safety. Didn't feel safe. Short term I'll see if I can duct some air to that motor (the engine bay is sealed pretty tight). Long term, depending on how often this happens, I'll look into swapping the povo spec electric/hydraulic rack in. While the rack should be fine the power supply to the pump will be a pain and might be best to deal with it when I add a PDM.
    • And finally, 2 problems I really need to sort.  Firstly as Matt said the auto trans is not happy as it gets hot - I couldn't log the temps but the gauge showed 90o. On the first day I took it out back in Feb, because the coolant was getting hot I never got to any auto trans issues; but on this day by late session 3 and then really clearly in 4 and 5 as it got hotter it just would not shift up. You can hear the issue really clearly at 12:55 and 16:20 on the vid. So the good news is, literally this week Ecutek finally released tuning for the jatco 7 speed. I'll have a chat to Racebox and see what they can do electrically to keep it cooler and to get the gears, if anything. That will likely take some R&D and can only really happen on track as it never gets even warm with road use. I've also picked up some eye wateringly expensive Redline D6 ATF to try, it had the highest viscosity I could find at 100o so we will see if that helps (just waiting for some oil pan gaskets so I can change it properly). If neither of those work I need to remove the coolant/trans interwarmer and the radiator cooler and go to an external cooler....somewhere.....(goodbye washer reservoir?), and if that fails give up on this mad idea and wait for Nissan to release the manual 400R
    • So, what else.... Power. I don't know what it is making because I haven't done a post tune dyno run yet; I will when I get a chance. It was 240rwkw dead stock. Conclusion from the day....it does not need a single kw more until I sort some other stuff. It comes on so hard that I could hear the twin N1 turbos on the R32 crying, and I just can't use what it has around a tight track with the current setup. Brakes. They are perfect. Hit them hard all day and they never felt like having an issue; you can see in the video we were making ground on much lighter cars on better tyres under brakes. They are standard (red sport) calipers, standard size discs in DBA5000 2 piece, Winmax pads and Motul RBF600 fluid, all from Matty at Racebrakes Sydney. Keeping in mind the car is more powerful than my R32 and weighs 1780, he clearly knows his shit. Suspension. This is one of the first areas I need to change. It has electronically controlled dampers from factory, but everything is just way too soft for track work even on the hardest setting (it is nice when hustling on country roads though). In particular it rolls into oversteer mid corner and pitches too much under hard braking so it becomes unstable eg in the turn 1 kink I need to brake early, turn through the kink then brake again so I don't pirouette like an AE86. I need to get some decent shocks with matched springs and sway bars ASAP, even if it is just a v1 setup until I work out a proper race/rally setup later. Tyres. I am running Yoko A052 in 235/45/18 all round, because that was what I could get in approximately the right height on wheels I had in the shed (Rays/Nismo 18x8 off the old Leaf actually!). As track tyres they are pretty poor; I note GTSBoy recently posted a porker comparo video including them where they were about the same as AD09.....that is nothing like a top line track tyre. I'll start getting that sorted but realistically I should get proper sized wheels first (likely 9.5 +38 front and 11 +55 at the rear, so a custom order, and I can't rotate them like the R32), then work out what the best tyre option is. BTW on that, Targa Tas had gone to road tyres instead of semi slicks now so that is a whole other world of choices to sort. Diff. This is the other thing that urgently needs to be addressed. It left massive 1s out of the fish hook all day, even when I was trying not too (you can also hear it reving on the video, and see the RPM rising too fast compared to speed in the data). It has an open diff that Infiniti optimistically called a B-LSD for "Brake Limited Slip Diff". It does good straight line standing start 11s but it is woeful on the track. Nismo seem to make a 2 way for it.
×
×
  • Create New...