[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

[GTScotT]

LOL Garrett Dualboost, I hadn't bothered following garrett shiz for a long time. Double compressors is VERY interesting.

[discopotato03]

IMO the EFRs are better generic units than those Garrett dual boost things . They look like specialised model/engine specific turbos and not very versatile . Also calling the hot side axial is a bit elastic as the gas flow still turns through 90 degrees .

Clearly BW is on the right track trying hard to minimise the mass/inertia of the rotating group (turbine) and offering twin scroll and integral waste gating . Nothing wrong with conventional wisdom if everything is really dialled in . Garrett appears to be trying the cheap way out with current materials and questionable black magic (apprentice engineering) . Good luck with that ...

It would be good for BW to get OE interest and volume sales because that's where the real money is .

Not sure if its helping them but the trend these days is smaller engines and higher boost to get the torque out of them , not surprisingly tightening emissions regs are f**king over advanced engineering so gains can be minimal .

Edited October 9, 2013 by discopotato03

[Sub Boy32]

I see next year that Indy Cars now must run twin EFR turbos, so those waiting for 9180s they should be readily available

[Full-Race Geoff]

I see next year that Indy Cars now must run twin EFR turbos, so those waiting for 9180s they should be readily available

Yes, all Indycar teams were mandated to run twin 6758's next year, in order to make things more consistent between the engine manufacturers on the different tracks... as a result we finally have the EFR9180s in stock in fact Tilton Interiors time attack evo just got theirs in time for wtac

IMO the EFRs are better generic units than those Garrett dual boost things . They look like specialised model/engine specific turbos and not very versatile . Also calling the hot side axial is a bit elastic as the gas flow still turns through 90 degrees. Clearly BW is on the right track trying hard to minimise the mass/inertia of the rotating group (turbine) and offering twin scroll and integral waste gating . Nothing wrong with conventional wisdom if everything is really dialled in . Garrett appears to be trying the cheap way out with current materials and questionable black magic (apprentice engineering) . Good luck with that ...

It would be good for BW to get OE interest and volume sales because that's where the real money is .

Not sure if its helping them but the trend these days is smaller engines and higher boost to get the torque out of them , not surprisingly tightening emissions regs are f**king over advanced engineering so gains can be minimal .

adrian, you are correct the OEM business for turbochargers is the reason BW invested in the EFR program. They are developing technologies for racing in order to sell turbos of tomorrow to the OEM's. over the next few years the demand from automakers for turbochargers will be through the roof. features like gamma ti turbines, integrated bov/wg, stainless twinscroll housings, and the others will be found on oem engines. in fact heres a statement today from honeywell/garrett about this

LOL Garrett Dualboost, I hadn't bothered following garrett shiz for a long time. Double compressors is VERY interesting.

dualboost is garrett's way to lower rotational inertia, by using 2 small compressors instead of 1 larger one. packaging issues and increased wall friction are the downsides. Borgwarner lowers inertia with the titanium aluminide

I wish BW'd get the finger out with the B1 7163 turbo because it's been soooooo long in the pipeline . I keep searching for new info/results but all I find is limited testing with prototypes and they've changed over time . About the only thing I've read recently is that they (I think) developed to be in step with Indycar apps and possibly that held them up . I'm guessing the "little" extras like the aluminium centre housing and the mixed flow turbine wheel have gone through the competition R/D wringer .

7163s are being built this month, and were added to matchbot recently. T25 iwg with T4 twinscroll iwg to follow. Turbine maps are up also its happening

[NismoSTune]

Honeywell.... Urgh, their electrical/electronic side of the business are such PITAs and can be a nuisance to work with. Hope they maintain Garrett's good ethics rather than push honeywell's ideas into its turbo world.

I wonder why IZOD decided to go twin instead of all single, is it because the singles were waxing the twin turbo cars (seems that 95% of the world knows singles are just better in everyday)...

As for the twin boost controllers you mentioned earlier Geoff, how are those wired? 1 ecu output and both wired in parallel or 2 ecu outputs needed for the dual controllers?

Any awesome pictures of a completed twin EFR kit? I see lots of pics but always in the building stage with no intake pipes or anything. Exciting to see some real numbers now that there's so many on the street now but they're all r34s I think?

[bri73y]

Here's a couple of pics for you.....

[NismoSTune]

Here's a couple of pics for you.....

efr twin.jpg efr twin 2.jpg

Hmm for some crazy reason, I thought your engine bay was green and your turbos black!

Still sick looking! Good luck at the wtac sir! We need more EFRs kickin butt there (other than the nemo car, the Sierra Sierra was fast and the advan gtr was quick)

[Lithium]

The ex-Willal drag R32 has twin EFR6758s, I am pretty sure one of the other EVOs is running an EFR8374, Tilton are running an EFR9180... So that's a few EFRs that will be on pretty rapid cars

[Lithium]

Oh, and the VSport EVO X

[NismoSTune]

The ex-Willal drag R32 has twin EFR6758s, I am pretty sure one of the other EVOs is running an EFR8374, Tilton are running an EFR9180... So that's a few EFRs that will be on pretty rapid cars

Ah true true.

You know a thing or 2 about these. Which EFR are you running (or will be)?

[Lithium]

I was aiming to get an EFR7670 for my R33 in the earlier days, and truth be told if the supply and reliability hadn't been a total fail I probably would have been caught in the moment and have one now - but that gave me heaps of time to sober up and I ended up parting out the old GT3076R setup and am pretty content convincing other people to spend their money and vicariously enjoy the results I probably wouldn't end up with an EFR unless I was building a serious race car.

[bri73y]

Hmm for some crazy reason, I thought your engine bay was green and your turbos black!

Still sick looking! Good luck at the wtac sir! We need more EFRs kickin butt there (other than the nemo car, the Sierra Sierra was fast and the advan gtr was quick)

They are nowadays. Those pics were from the original install. I didn't realise I had posted new pics of them being black. Anyway......

[black bnr32]

Here's a couple of pics for you.....

efr twin.jpgefr twin 2.jpg

My knuckles are bleeding just from looking at that. Hope the upsides outweigh the downsides!

[GTScotT]

7163s are being built this month, and were added to matchbot recently. T25 iwg with T4 twinscroll iwg to follow. Turbine maps are up also its happening

With any luck do you know if BW have plans to produce a T3 variant for this turbo?

[discopotato03]

There's some interesting reading at Evom and little bits being mentioned about the impending 7163 .

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/533438-new-bw-efr-turbo-thread-167.html

I can see a lots of testing and comparisons between this one and the 7064 and 7670s . I predict that the 7163 won't make huge numbers but will probably do amazing things for its size .

From what I see there isn't going to be a T3 flanged turbine housing from EFR though I suspect a few sharpies may try to fit alternative housings to them . Plainly TS T3 isn't going to happen and while single scroll isn't the best technology available a 7163 in this form should be better in theory than a GT3076R .

It makes me wonder how they'd go with someone else's 0.63 or 0.82 IW housing .

[Sub Boy32]

Someone mentioned OEM for The EFR's

.....well I wouldn't say it's a huge amount (in fact the order as it stands is 120 cars) but the Pagani Huayra with its AMG twin turbo V12 has EFR turbos on it.

So there's at least 240 units sold! Haha!

[mmmm.......Pagani, must win next big Lotto draw]

[NismoSTune]

That "Y-raw" is SICK!!!!!!!

I checked out that evo forum link... doesn't seem like many of them are convinced and even go as far and piss on the idea. Then again, most of the world seems to think like that, till they get one! lol

I'm curious, will the Indy cars be running twin 6758 or larger?

Edited October 12, 2013 by NismoSTune

[Roy]

Yes, all Indycar teams were mandated to run twin 6758's next year, in order to make things more consistent between the engine manufacturers on the different tracks...

Looking at your site it suggests that you can get twin scroll T4 housings for the 6758 but isnt available in the drag down box. I am after a punchy turbo for my 2L YB cosworth. Engine runs low compression and runs 26psi at the moment so if I can get something a little more punchy that likes boost I could get a streetable bit of grunt

[Full-Race Geoff]

Looking at your site it suggests that you can get twin scroll T4 housings for the 6758 but isnt available in the drag down box. I am after a punchy turbo for my 2L YB cosworth. Engine runs low compression and runs 26psi at the moment so if I can get something a little more punchy that likes boost I could get a streetable bit of grunt

the Twin Scroll T4 housing will be available for the 7163 starting in approximately 3 weeks... thats what you want to run. heaps of grunt and still 60lb/min top end flow capability to support your 26psi target boost level

I predict that the 7163 won't make huge numbers but will probably do amazing things for its size. From what I see there isn't going to be a T3 flanged turbine housing from EFR though I suspect a few sharpies may try to fit alternative housings to them . Plainly TS T3 isn't going to happen and while single scroll isn't the best technology available a 7163 in this form should be better in theory than a GT3076R . It makes me wonder how they'd go with someone else's 0.63 or 0.82 IW housing .

the 7163 is very impressive - we consider it to be the ultimate 500hp turbo. It's unique MFT (mixed flow turbine) wheel allows much more exhaust flow for a given wheel size and inertia, the on-engine performance is nothing to scoff at. If you wanted a T3 twinscroll, or a T3 singlescroll for that matter -- remember EFR's all use stainless housings so its easy to weld on top of the T4 or T25 housing -- a T3 flange and make it work. weve done this more than a few times now

The ex-Willal drag R32 has twin EFR6758s, I am pretty sure one of the other EVOs is running an EFR8374, Tilton are running an EFR9180... So that's a few EFRs that will be on pretty rapid cars

some of the WTAC cars running EFR turbos:

vsport evoX -- EFR 8374

nik kalis evo 9 -- EFR 8374

Nemo evo 9 -- EFR 9180

Tilton evo 8 -- EFR9180

john bright R32 GTR-- EFR 6258 x2

Danh Tranh R32 GTR-- EFR 6758 x2

Ric Shaw FD RX7 -- EFR 8374

judas jones ralliart colt -- EFR 6258

-----------------------------

FXMD NSX -- EFR 9180 (unable to make it to wtac2013)

Sierra Sierra -- EFR 9180 (retired)

Someone mentioned OEM for The EFR's.....well I wouldn't say it's a huge amount (in fact the order as it stands is 120 cars) but the Pagani Huayra with its AMG twin turbo V12 has EFR turbos on it. So there's at least 240 units sold! Haha!

that thing is absolutely insane, twin EFR 6758s in the oem mercedes turbofold (integrated manifold/turbine housing)

[GTScotT]

If you wanted a T3 twinscroll, or a T3 singlescroll for that matter -- remember EFR's all use stainless housings so its easy to weld on top of the T4 or T25 housing -- a T3 flange and make it work. weve done this more than a few times now

Wouldn't welding on a T3 flange to a T2 housing result in just a little bit of turbulence? I mean considering the side of the T3 discharge to the T2 entry.. I like the idea but I am not sure this is sound advice :S At least not without better instruction or insight into a successful procedure.

Not to be a prick, but I have a T3 setup as noted and I WANT a 500HP EFR...