What Have You Done To Your Stagea Lately?

[PN-Mad]

But wouldn't I need an adaptor to move the caliper to accept the bigger R33 GTR disc?

Does that make R34s bolt on too?

Nope- I think the Brembos just space the caliper out further.

R34's - yup. Same brakes I think. - just different bolt size. The GTS-t's/ GT-Ts I think had a 30mm thick disc

[Sunkist]

Yeh Scott will be making my sleeves. But Im gonna look at getting slotted rotors and some A1RM QFM pads. Oh and some new wheels lol won't fit under an ARX rim

[bigkevracer]

This Stagea is like a bloody disease. All I wanted was a set of rear brake pads. And its gone from rear brake pads, to R32 fronts, to 'oh, that 350Z big brake set is only $1300, not much more than R32 calipers, rebuild kid, new pads and new calipers'. Dammit.

Anyway, what have I done to my Stagea lately? Well my Nismo dash got posted Thursday, so hopefully it'll be here tomorrow... except that tomorrow morning I'm taking the car to AM Performance to get the exhaust done. Am also going to get Andrew to look at some of the other piping, see if he can make some more improvements...

Pick it up Friday/Saturday, can't wait

Then just waiting on my sway bars... Shouldn't be too long...

[ironpaw]

'oh, that 350Z big brake set is only $1300,

That's not a bad price if it included decent rotors.

I paid $900 for mine shipped, front and rear calipers. + $600 for new RDA slotted rotors, + another 200 for HPX pads front and rear + $180 for braided brake lines...

almost 2k...hmmm

[bigkevracer]

What did you get? Could have got the Akebono kit for that.

Did your braided lines end up turning up and fitting?

[Sunkist]

Yeh but the akebonos need an adapter which spaces the caliper out. Not insurance friendly at all. Let alone road worthy. The brembos bolt right up

[Daleo]

Any decent consulting engineer would look at those CNC'ed, billet brackets; and approve them. Offset brackets are not illegal; just need them inspected. Any brake upgrade, more than a set of updated pads & rotors, needs to be engineered to be legal.

[Sunkist]

so even going to the Brembos wouldnt be legal? without an engineers cert?

[ironpaw]

What did you get? Could have got the Akebono kit for that.

Did your braided lines end up turning up and fitting?

What's the point? They are heavier without any more benefits. Other then being new...

[Commsman]

So what's the deal with upgraded brakes? Do you guys want to track your cars?

I know mine is going to need new new discs sometime as they shudder/vibrate slightly (I've heard that is typical of M35's), but I was thinking of a simple disc replacement, not going to all the effort/cost some of you seem to be heading towards.

Yesterday I had to stop suddenly when an idiot decided they weren't going to turn right and pulled back into my lane. I actually locked up a front tyre (maybe both) for an instant before the ABS kicked in & my son reckoned he nearly passed out with the negative G's .

Now I could be way off here, but if standard brakes can activate the ABS, then your maximum braking depends on the grip coefficient of your tyres on the road surface. So I think you'd be better off spending money on better tyres.

Of course, the standard brakes aren't going to stop like that again & again (eg. on the track) & won't have the nicer feel of some of these upgraded brake packages, but I wonder if it is worth ~ $1.5 - $2K for the feel?

Anyway, just my mind pondering the universe & Stagea's brakes. Always an interesting read. Keep up the good work guys.

[zei20l]

Leon, i upgraded pads and rotors and installed braideed brake lines with new fluid. it brakes so much better now. IMO dont upgrade the brakes to larger calipers/rotors unless youre going to push your car hard. if youre street driving etc, then stock sizes are fine IMO.

[Sunkist]

So what's the deal with upgraded brakes? Do you guys want to track your cars?

I know mine is going to need new new discs sometime as they shudder/vibrate slightly (I've heard that is typical of M35's), but I was thinking of a simple disc replacement, not going to all the effort/cost some of you seem to be heading towards.

Yesterday I had to stop suddenly when an idiot decided they weren't going to turn right and pulled back into my lane. I actually locked up a front tyre (maybe both) for an instant before the ABS kicked in & my son reckoned he nearly passed out with the negative G's .

Now I could be way off here, but if standard brakes can activate the ABS, then your maximum braking depends on the grip coefficient of your tyres on the road surface. So I think you'd be better off spending money on better tyres.

Of course, the standard brakes aren't going to stop like that again & again (eg. on the track) & won't have the nicer feel of some of these upgraded brake packages, but I wonder if it is worth ~ $1.5 - $2K for the feel?

Anyway, just my mind pondering the universe & Stagea's brakes. Always an interesting read. Keep up the good work guys.

i have to say I agree with you and Iain.

i upgraded to slotted rotors and some simple HPX pad's.. without the BRaided lines and it made a heap of difference still.

the only reason Im gonna do GTR 32 brakes is because I picked some calipers in really good condition for $150.. thats cheaper than the rotors..

i drove scotts stag with the 32 brakes, and there is a VERY noticable difference. i think the more power you go, the better braking you need..

my 2 cents anyway.

[Daleo]

so even going to the Brembos wouldnt be legal? without an engineers cert?

They're not FACTORY fitted on our car, so technically it's an modification; regardless of the fact they bolt straight on. That just means it's a no brainer to engineer.

[Sunkist]

yeh.. so if i was to go and get the 32GTR brakes engineered. i shouldnt have a problem right?

I mean it is an "upgrade" going from 1pot to 4..

[Daleo]

yeh.. so if i was to go and get the 32GTR brakes engineered. i shouldnt have a problem right?

I mean it is an "upgrade" going from 1pot to 4..

It's not so much the "upgrade' that an engineer looks at; it's the execution.

For example, if you just fitted up your R32's without fitting the reducing bushes, or with some mild steel bolts from Bunnings instead of Grade 8 or Grade 10; would that be an upgarde?

Definitely not. You'd be stretching those weak arse bolts from the first application, you'd damage the mounting lugs on the hub, possibly locking the caliper against the rotor and spearing out of control through a busload of blind, orphan, amputee, baby fur seals!

Nobody wants to be THAT guy...

It might never happen , but done right; it will never happen.

[Sunkist]

It's not so much the "upgrade' that an engineer looks at; it's the execution.

For example, if you just fitted up your R32's without fitting the reducing bushes, or with some mild steel bolts from Bunnings instead of Grade 8 or Grade 10; would that be an upgarde?

Definitely not. You'd be stretching those weak arse bolts from the first application, you'd damage the mounting lugs on the hub, possibly locking the caliper against the rotor and spearing out of control through a busload of blind, orphan, amputee, baby fur seals!

Nobody wants to be THAT guy...

It might never happen , but done right; it will never happen.

well scottys making me up the reducers.

and I was gonna take the caliper to a "bolt & stud Specialist" so ask for a high Q studs. that should be ok right?

or what should I be asking for?

lol good way to put it with the baby fur seals on the road haha

[Daleo]

well scottys making me up the reducers.

and I was gonna take the caliper to a "bolt & stud Specialist" so ask for a high Q studs. that should be ok right?

or what should I be asking for?

lol good way to put it with the baby fur seals on the road haha

The thing most engineers will ask is if you used the factory bolts; I ve done 3 R32 brake upgrades, 2 r31's and a Cressida, all using dog bones that I machined myself.

One lot from 4140 steel and 2 from 316 Stainless. This was the first question he asked every time.

A visual inspection of the brackets was required (minimum material thickness of 12mm at any point and a 7mm minimum thickness adjacent to a hole or thread) and a calculation of the fluid area of the caliper pistons and the Master Cylinder and the fluid volume of the reservoir; to ensure you can't bottom the brake pedal or run out of fluid before the calipers bite/ as the pads wear. If all of those meet or exceed the specs on the donor car you're all good.

Go and order an new set of caliper mounting bolts from your local dealer & keep the reciept.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Daleo

[Sunkist]

The thing most engineers will ask is if you used the factory bolts; I ve done 3 R32 brake upgrades, 2 r31's and a Cressida, all using dog bones that I machined myself.

One lot from 4140 steel and 2 from 316 Stainless. This was the first question he asked every time.

A visual inspection of the brackets was required (minimum material thickness of 12mm at any point and minimum thickness adjacent to a hole or thread) and a calculation of the fluid area of the caliper pistons and the Master Cylinder and the fluid volume of the reservoir; to ensure you can't bottom the brake pedal or run out of fluid before the calipers bite/ as the pads wear. If all of those meet or exceed the specs on the donor car you're all good.

Go and order an new set of caliper mounting bolts from your local dealer & keep the reciept.

sweet. cheers buddy!

i posted a question about the specifin bolts i need in the M35 brake n rotor thread..

[ironpaw]

I think the more power you go, the better braking you need..

my 2 cents anyway.

This is why you need bigger brakes...

I'm sure at stock power and a bit more braided line + rotors + pads are fine...

I want to enjoy the power I paid for with a bit of safety...so upgrading my brakes seems like a worthwhile thing.

[wht510]

The thing most engineers will ask is if you used the factory bolts; I ve done 3 R32 brake upgrades, 2 r31's and a Cressida, all using dog bones that I machined myself.

One lot from 4140 steel and 2 from 316 Stainless. This was the first question he asked every time.

A visual inspection of the brackets was required (minimum material thickness of 12mm at any point and a 7mm minimum thickness adjacent to a hole or thread) and a calculation of the fluid area of the caliper pistons and the Master Cylinder and the fluid volume of the reservoir; to ensure you can't bottom the brake pedal or run out of fluid before the calipers bite/ as the pads wear. If all of those meet or exceed the specs on the donor car you're all good.

Go and order an new set of caliper mounting bolts from your local dealer & keep the reciept.

One thing Engineers ask if the dog bone would pass a 'destructive test' where the rotor is locked and a force is applied proportional to doing a 1G stop:

Assume vehicle weight is 1800kg (perhaps with 2 occupants etc.)

Single front wheel will experience a braking force of 0.8x 1/2 x 1800 = 720kg (0.8 is assuming 80% of braking force to the front brakes)

Based on an approximate 600mm dia tyre the torque generated will be 0.3x 720 x 9.81 = 2118.96 Nm

Assume disc rotor path is 298mm (outer dia and inner dia of approx 240mm), therefore mean effective radius is 136mm (rounded)

This translate to a torque of (Fxd = Fxd = 2119x296 = F x 136) therefore F = 4612Nm at brake rotor radius of 136mm

For bolt diameter calculations, don't forget there are two bolts, so divide this force by two to calculate the shear of the bolt and the approximate strength required and the revised radius of the torque acting on the bolts (smaller diameter...)

The destructive test for the dog bone bracket should be done at 2x force for safety factor and 3 times safety factor and the results recorded. FEA is non destructive and would allow theoretical tests to be done without breaking anything. Your engineer can perform this task and include the data in the report.

316 Stainless wont have the same strength as 4140, so the requirements of 12mm at any point and 7mm min thickness wont be applicable to this material.

If you are using factory brake calipers (from a larger or higher performing car) and bolting these on without dogbone adapters, then your engineer doesn't need to do the calculations, and therefore you save money when you get the certificate done!

Safety first gents..