Bending The Rules

[zebra]

I've come up with this after the 2011 supercab thread with teams somehow getting an extra few laps from the car without running out of fuel.

So what have you seen/heard on the grapvine/read etc, and is it good or bad.

Things like the Ferrari F1 4L "fuel cooler"

Nascar teams filling the cage/chassis with wet sand so they meet minimum weight at Scrutineering, then over the course of the race it dries out and falls out the bottom of the car.

Or in Snowy's case, running the R33 gearbox in the 34 at Targa.

I feel that things like filling the car with wet sand is just blatent cheating, but running larger/multiple fuel lines is clever, or running a 5 speed instead of a 6 speed offers no real advantage.

What do you guys think

[fatz]

eating a dodgy vindaloo before the race to drop 5kg?

[scooby36]

i love these advances in technology that take a while for other teams to copy. ie:

renaults mass damper in 06

ferraris 'through the nose' hole back 08

ferraris wheel covers and the amazing wheel nuts to allow them

mclarens individual left/right rear brake pedals

mclarens f-duct

also check out smokey yunicks stories here :]

http://www.circletrack.com/ultimateracing/ctrp_0801_smokey_yunick/index.html

[evil_weevil]

Pete's one is the best.

[Dobz]

I remeber a guy from work who is an F1 nut told me that there was case where a team was found out using a flexible rear wing that had a high angle of attack at low speeds but when it hit higher speeds it flexed down and flattened out to cause less drag.

He also reckons that Micheal Schumacer would never have won so many championships if it wasn't for his team "pushing the envelope" of what was allowed in the rules regarding fuel loading, engine power, traction control etc.

[Roy]

eating a dodgy vindaloo before the race to drop 5kg?

Doesnt have to be dodgy to knock 5kgs out of you. Dodgy is both ends so you can almost double that!

[Shell]

At the dinner we had recently with Jim Richards and the Gibson team manager, they had some great stories about "bending the rules". You could probably get away with more back then too.

[nismoman]

I remember reading about the Gibson motorsport team using a fire extinguisher to cool engine temps as the rules stated you had to carry an onboard extinguisher system.

The rules said nothing about it having to be full at the end of the race.

Another one was Fred Gibson running a larger than standard/homologated intercooler and when the CAMS scrutineer found the item on the race car did not comply, asked him to replace it. As Gibson Motorsport were backed by Nissan then, he had an exact same intercooler (that was still oversize) on stand by wrapped in Nissan packaging. So replaced with this, the scrutineer was satisfied it was a genuine part.

I personally don't agree with "bending" the rules, as there is a fine line between that and cheating. It seems some people try there darndest to justify their cheating by saying it's "bending" the rules and not "breaking" the rules.

[zebra]

I remember reading about the Gibson motorsport team using a fire extinguisher to cool engine temps as the rules stated you had to carry an onboard extinguisher system.

The rules said nothing about it having to be full at the end of the race.

Another one was Fred Gibson running a larger than standard/homologated intercooler and when the CAMS scrutineer found the item on the race car did not comply, asked him to replace it. As Gibson Motorsport were backed by Nissan then, he had an exact same intercooler (that was still oversize) on stand by wrapped in Nissan packaging. So replaced with this, the scrutineer was satisfied it was a genuine part.

I personally don't agree with "bending" the rules, as there is a fine line between that and cheating. It seems some people try there darndest to justify their cheating by saying it's "bending" the rules and not "breaking" the rules.

That reminds me, the 05 Mobil Sierra of Peter Brock was said to have had an extinguisher nozzle pointing at the turbo, was allegedly found by one of DJRs crew chiefs, but by the time the tech inspectors arrived the 05 car was behind a locked garage.

[phunky_monkey]

I have no issue with bending of the rules; if you're team is more dedicated to finding loopholes and clever enough to execute it then more power to you!

Porsche were kings of this in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

Breaking the rules (such as the sand trick) is a different story.

[Ant97GTR]

That reminds me, the 05 Mobil Sierra of Peter Brock was said to have had an extinguisher nozzle pointing at the turbo, was allegedly found by one of DJRs crew chiefs, but by the time the tech inspectors arrived the 05 car was behind a locked garage.

I can also confirm that a lot of the group A Sierras ran turbos that weren't exactly rule abiding inside....and thats from the guy who worked on them

Lets face it, winning motorsport is all about building a car that meets the rules but is magically quicker than everyone elses - if there is no bending the rules, or another way to put it "interpretation of the rules" then most of the team engineers would be out of a job!

[iplen]

Subaru ran a class in the ARC a few years back for 2.5 RS Imprezas, which I was lucky enough to compete in, but as 1 make series which was primarily being run by their marketing dept it was unreal the cheating that was going on! Spec C shells, Cars that were allowed nothing more than a control exhaust blowing flames, and making 100awkw, when ours made 80 at the hubs... (with an illegal STI fuel pump) Cars with 3 open diffs, that would spin the inside rear driving around a car park... Funny thing is that as one of the people who was not doing that and was left looking slow because of it, my frustration was with the Scruitineers etc for not finding it, the guys doing it, well good on them for being that creative.

Brocky's Sierra had the extinguisher pointing at the intercooler during qualifying for Bathurst, and was found, and he was pushed down the grid for it.

Edited February 19, 2011 by iplen

[bigmikespec]

I remeber a guy from work who is an F1 nut told me that there was case where a team was found out using a flexible rear wing that had a high angle of attack at low speeds but when it hit higher speeds it flexed down and flattened out to cause less drag.

He also reckons that Micheal Schumacer would never have won so many championships if it wasn't for his team "pushing the envelope" of what was allowed in the rules regarding fuel loading, engine power, traction control etc.

Ferrari have a history of "bending" the rules or manipulating people to let them break the rules.

[DJRIFT]

whist yes its cheating and cheating is bad. its only cheating if you get court out.

it would be good to know half the stuff thats done that doesnt get picked up on.

somthings are also good engerneering and can help outher people out. if the engerneers didnt have to think outside the box there would never be any new developments.

[Rhys9]

Like I always say if your not cheating then your not trying hard enough!!

Rhys

[sav man]

One of the local rally guys bought a ex factory ARC Subaru and blew a head gasket. He went to Subaru and got a EJ20 gasket and it didn't fit, so he got another one thinking they'd given him the wrong one... then he got a EJ25 one and it fitted. Turns out the factory subies were running EJ25's stapmed as EJ20's.

Best rumour I've heard is that the group b Lancia Delta S4's were hiding nitrous in the roll cage

[Marlin]

I find it hard to believe a factory team would sell a factory car with an illegal engine.

[PHaT MR30]

I find it hard to believe a factory team would sell a factory car with an illegal engine.

Why would they care when they are no longer fielding a car?

[Marlin]

I understand they got out of the sport (and assume this was purchased around then?) and know where you're coming from, but I still think that a bit of nouse would be used in case they ever wanted to re-join.

I'm not saying it's completely discountable, but even I went to a lot of effort to sneak out the Hemi V8 in the Targa car prior

to the finish scrutineering. And I'm small fry compared to a factory team!

[nismoman]

What's the point of having class rules then? May as well just compete in a "no rules" form of racing.

I have a competitive sailing background and we have one design classes where nothing can be changed from the manufacturer. Think Olympic classes with boats such as Laser, 470 and 49er's.

The idea is to give everyone a level playing field. You should be able to hop from one boat (or car) to another in the same class and the only difference is the driver.

Then there are development classes which virtually have no rules except "must be 12 feet long" for example. This way you get to choose what suits you. If you want to be creative and smart, go the development class. If you want fair/level racing go one design class.

To hear about the cheating in the RS Impreza challenge is absolutely woeful. It breaks all the rules and ideas behind a one make series.

It's a moral and ethical issue for me.

Getting away with it cause you didn't get caught doesn't cut it with me.

Edited February 20, 2011 by nismoman