GTX3076R GEN II VS GTX3576R GEN II on RB26

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

On 10/06/2019 at 12:26 PM, sneakey pete said:

Don't think you'd be at a power level where a 76mm plazmaman would be overwhelmed, didn't have any IAT issues with mine doing 700 to the hubs last month. Might make packaging and purchase price a bit nicer

I like a bit of overkill, also the car will be abused at the track. So I suspect IATs will climb pretty quickly.

Where air density matters, cooler is better. 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

No real data, but here's some Gen 2 whine 

 

[etang789]

1 hour ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

No real data, but here's some Gen 2 whine 

 

Lovely

[Taha]

Hi my friend is building a drift car would the gtx 3076 or gtx3576 be a better option  on a built 26 in a  competion drift car 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

GTX3576R over GTX3076R, you need to get the air that you've pumped in out somehow.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Keeping the GTX flame alive, nearly 1.3bar in 3rd @ 4000rpm on 98RON and pretty low timing. She's a bit rich, but we'll get there. Haven't quite got the IAT compensation table right

Also found out there's a Quick Spool function with Halalkebab Elite, I like it.

[Lithium]

16 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Keeping the GTX flame alive, nearly 1.3bar in 3rd @ 4000rpm on 98RON and pretty low timing. She's a bit rich, but we'll get there. Haven't quite got the IAT compensation table right

Also found out there's a Quick Spool function with Halalkebab Elite, I like it.

 

Nice, that is decent!  

Legotech doesn't have charge temp estimation?

Curious to know what "quick spool" means in this instance, what kind of strategy are they using?

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

25 minutes ago, Lithium said:

Legotech doesn't have charge temp estimation?

Curious to know what "quick spool" means in this instance, what kind of strategy are they using?

I don't believe it does, nor have I had such experience. I generally just trim fuel based on IAT but that could be an ancient way of doing things.

Quick Spool feature, pretty much just sets the DC on 100% before you reach within say 50kPA of your targetted boost threshold before it accesses the base DC table followed by enabling closed loop boost control.

It's a bit hard to get it to not spike, just need a bit more time on the street and dyno.

[Lithium]

1 minute ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Quick Spool feature, pretty much just sets the DC on 100% before you reach within say 50kPA of your targetted boost threshold before it accesses the base DC table followed by enabling closed loop boost control.

Ahh ok, pretty standard - just never seen it called "quick spool" before.  Definitely a handy strategy for bringing it up near target quickly, slightly early "cracking" of the gate definitely has a tangible affect on spool.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

2 hours ago, Lithium said:

Ahh ok, pretty standard - just never seen it called "quick spool" before.  Definitely a handy strategy for bringing it up near target quickly, slightly early "cracking" of the gate definitely has a tangible affect on spool.

hahah well Kebabtech literally calls it just that LOL

[Lithium]

5 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

hahah well Kebabtech literally calls it just that LOL

To be fair it pretty much does what it says, so can't exactly knock it    I was just amused as I was wondering what witchcraft they may have devised and it turned out to be a standard kind of thing that the setting usually has a much more mundane sounding name haha.

So how long before you put it on a dyno and send it? It's definitely looking like a potent combo, and not sure if you've seen the kind of numbers people are getting out of these turbos - but it could surprise some people 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

3 minutes ago, Lithium said:

So how long before you put it on a dyno and send it? It's definitely looking like a potent combo, and not sure if you've seen the kind of numbers people are getting out of these turbos - but it could surprise some people 

Not too sure, been so busy as I've started a new job, finished renos at home, trying to spin up a new e-comm, etc. Car is definitely right down there on the priorities list.

I would like a new 100mm Plaz cooler first before I send it's mum and yeah been following Benchmark and having chats here and there with Ben and he's getting 400~440kW on these turbos (depending on rear housing). He did say he prefers the larger rear housings than the 0.83 divided ones.

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Thread revival

So finally was bothered to get my car on the dyno today, and results are pretty promising.

407kW with close to 2bar of boost, still having some small boost issues. 4 port solenoids are actually much harder to tune than expected. Needed to drop the solenoid frequency down to 16hz. Using the recommended 30hz was horrific, the car would overshoot into the moon. Initially the gate had a 1bar spring, however running a 0.5bar spring helped dramatically.

Shout out to Alex and the team at Birrong Automotive for letting me do r&d on my own shitbox. They do some wicked builds there and the worksmanship is amazing. If you need a serious built car, bring it there!

Will be back for round 2 when my Plazmaman cooler arrives, will try up the solenoid operating frequency too.

Forgot to set up the derived RPM so no RPM reading nor derived torque.

Logs off Kebabtech:

 

Dyno sheet:

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Looking a bit deeper into the data, the GM open body IAT sensor, still doesn't read fast enough. After I backed off, you can see the real IAT temperatures.

It peaked at 57 degrees C (for you flat earth Americans that's 135 degrees F), chilling down the charge temp will definitely net that extra power quite easily.

Also @Lithium you might be interested  

 

Base Ignition table

Compensation table (yes it looks a but ugly, but will linearise it later)

[GTSBoy]

Well, it's as fast as you're gunna get, isn't it? It is always going to lag the real temperature if that happens to be changing as boost increases, intercooler heats up and rpm is changing by several hundred per second. As long as +/-10°C isn't going to kill anything, you should be OK.

And....another significant factor. The intercooler stores heat. When you load it up under a boost run then back off, the heat in the cooler transfers into the air coming through. You have a lot less air coming through when you back off, so it is reasonable to expect the core to drop a bit more heat into each unit of air and thus raise the temp of that air up very close to the core's temp, for those first second or so after you come off the hammer.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

12 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

Well, it's as fast as you're gunna get, isn't it? It is always going to lag the real temperature if that happens to be changing as boost increases, intercooler heats up and rpm is changing by several hundred per second. As long as +/-10°C isn't going to kill anything, you should be OK.

And....another significant factor. The intercooler stores heat. When you load it up under a boost run then back off, the heat in the cooler transfers into the air coming through. You have a lot less air coming through when you back off, so it is reasonable to expect the core to drop a bit more heat into each unit of air and thus raise the temp of that air up very close to the core's temp, for those first second or so after you come off the hammer.

That's also very true, good way of explaining it - thanks for that!

However, I am confident there's a bit more in with a better FMIC. I've already ordered a Plazmaman Pro core 2x weeks ago, but there's a big backlog (was hoping to get it before the dyno day but nope  )

[GTSBoy]

Oh, I'm not arguing against putting a bigger core in it, or otherwise improving the cooling power. Go for your life on that. Just pointing out that I don't think a half second of continuing temperature rise after you back off is all the fault of the "slow" IAT sensor.

[Lithium]

16 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Looking a bit deeper into the data, the GM open body IAT sensor, still doesn't read fast enough. After I backed off, you can see the real IAT temperatures.

It peaked at 57 degrees C (for you flat earth Americans that's 135 degrees F), chilling down the charge temp will definitely net that extra power quite easily.

Also @Lithium you might be interested  

 

 

Base Ignition table

Compensation table (yes it looks a but ugly, but will linearise it later)

Nice, missed the tag initially sorry!     Hope you can iron out the boost control, holding it higher up high could deliver some solid numbers - not that it's shabby now

So with Haltech, is that correction table basically added to the base table?  So 7000rpm and 250kpaA it's running around 26deg timing on eth?

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

14 minutes ago, Lithium said:

Nice, missed the tag initially sorry!     Hope you can iron out the boost control, holding it higher up high could deliver some solid numbers - not that it's shabby now

So with Haltech, is that correction table basically added to the base table?  So 7000rpm and 250kpaA it's running around 26deg timing on eth?

 

I believe from the data, the boost behaviour is due to the increase in IATs. I do have an IAT correction table which adds an extra 1% every 10 degrees the IAT climbs (probably not enough). 

And yes, that's how the Kebabtech works. You have a base ignition table and you add a correction/compensation based on ethanol. What you see in that table is when E85 = 100%. There's another table where you can adjust the blend too.

If you look at my dashboard view, second column 2nd row that's the actual timing, and 2nd column 3rd row is the base timing.

I'm confident I'll get it to that unicorn 600hp mark for internet bragging rights ?

[Lithium]

How do you find the GTX3576R to drive / tune compared to the old SS2?