Fuel pumps

[timmy94]

Just curious about the fuel pump people uses? Is there any worse and better ones? 

I got a Deatschwerk in my Silvia, which worked alright.  

Im looking at Walbro F90000267 450 LPH for my R32 GT-R. 

 

I guy had a WALBRO from a GTR thats been scrapped. I think its a 450lhp, i could get it for free almost since it just sitting there for no use anymore, but im not sure about to buy used fuel pumps. It works and everything, but mabye its risky to put that my car? 

[Duncan]

Lots of choices out there these days, but if you current pump is working and you are not running out of fuel during tuning there is no benefit to changing it

[GTSBoy]

How broke do we need to be to choose a 2nd hand fuel pump?

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

On 05/08/2022 at 5:12 AM, timmy94 said:

Just curious about the fuel pump people uses? Is there any worse and better ones? 

DW and Walbro are both decent pumps, FWIW I run a DW200 lift pump and 2x Wallahbro F90000267 via PWM.

 

And agree with @GTSBoy, just buy a new one. Keep that 2nd hand pump as a spare for troubleshooting or for moving fuel around things at home.

[joshuaho96]

My vote is DW440 brushless if you're going to bother with a new fuel pump. Brushless reduces your alternator power requirements and can pump E85 with no derate to lifespan unlike brushed pumps.

[admS15]

Since we are on the topic of fuel pumps. I have a dw300 (340lph) in tank pump. Has been in there for around 5 years predominantly with E85.

There have been no issues to date but I've been considering replacing just as a maintenance exercise. Would be replacing with exactly the same thing as I don't want the tune to get thrown off at all. What do you guys think, good idea or over kill? 

 

[joshuaho96]

On 8/5/2022 at 4:46 PM, admS15 said:

Since we are on the topic of fuel pumps. I have a dw300 (340lph) in tank pump. Has been in there for around 5 years predominantly with E85.

There have been no issues to date but I've been considering replacing just as a maintenance exercise. Would be replacing with exactly the same thing as I don't want the tune to get thrown off at all. What do you guys think, good idea or over kill? 

 

DW300s tend to be hit or miss AFAIK, so if you have a good one just keep running it.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

On 06/08/2022 at 9:46 AM, admS15 said:

I don't want the tune to get thrown off at all.

Provided your pump is supplying the correct fuel pressure and your FPR is able to regulate fuel pressure then changing to another pump should not affect the tune.

The only time this happens is when a fuel pump is under supplying the target fuel pressure and the fuel map compensates for dropping fuel pressure so when a new fuel pump that's able to supply the correct fuel pressure is installed there will be a sudden rich patch in the fuel table.

[admS15]

On 06/08/2022 at 11:22 AM, joshuaho96 said:

DW300s tend to be hit or miss AFAIK, so if you have a good one just keep running it.

This is my concern, was also considering going to an aem 340lph but I may just leave it as is. AFR's are still where they should be throughout the rev range.

On 06/08/2022 at 12:14 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Provided your pump is supplying the correct fuel pressure and your FPR is able to regulate fuel pressure then changing to another pump should not affect the tune.

The only time this happens is when a fuel pump is under supplying the target fuel pressure and the fuel map compensates for dropping fuel pressure so when a new fuel pump that's able to supply the correct fuel pressure is installed there will be a sudden rich patch in the fuel table.

Thanks, that's what I thought but still hesitant. I briefly hit 90% injector duty at peak power. Been like that for years and done heaps of track days without blowing up. Not sure if it should be getting to that sort of %. Running Nismo 740cc taps for injectors. Making 312rwkw.  AFR is a bit rich at full tilt. Somewhere in the high 10's low 11's. 

What sort of duty cycle would you expect to see at my power level with my injectors, pump is grounded with relay mod and better wiring. Standard 25 year old alternator. 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

@admS15 sounds about right on E85, my old setup with the Siemens DEKA 875cc injectors were in the 90 to 92% DC mark at 372kw

I'm assuming you have some form of closed loop O2 correction running too? 

[BK]

On 06/08/2022 at 2:32 PM, admS15 said:

 was also considering going to an aem 340lph

For low current consumption and reliability, AEM pumps are excellent. I have found them to be the most reliable out of any pumps I've used so far. I've yet to have an AEM fail ever after killing Bosch 044s, Nismo 280s and Walbro 460s over the years.

On the blue 32 I have AEM 340lph intank and twin external AEM 400lph on E85 - I recommend them when you need to change a pump 👍

[admS15]

On 06/08/2022 at 3:17 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

@admS15 sounds about right on E85, my old setup with the Siemens DEKA 875cc injectors were in the 90 to 92% DC mark at 372kw

I'm assuming you have some form of closed loop O2 correction running too? 

Cool, yes have closed loop running to about 200kpa then let the map do it's job. Tuna doesn't like leaving closed loop on for full throttle/boost. He only had it on for cruise/idle/low boost purposes. 

 

I am going to take it in for a power check and bit of a tickle to boost control and maybe trim a bit of fuel from the top end. 

If you where me, would you leave the pump as is or replace it with a new one?

[admS15]

On 06/08/2022 at 3:54 PM, BK said:

For low current consumption and reliability, AEM pumps are excellent. I have found them to be the most reliable out of any pumps I've used so far. I've yet to have an AEM fail ever after killing Bosch 044s, Nismo 280s and Walbro 460s over the years.

On the blue 32 I have AEM 340lph intank and twin external AEM 400lph on E85 - I recommend them when you need to change a pump 👍

If I do decide to change it, you have done a damn good job of steering me towards AEM. I have noticed very few online winge posts of ma pump failed bro for AEM vs the rest.

[joshuaho96]

On 8/5/2022 at 10:02 PM, admS15 said:

This is my concern, was also considering going to an aem 340lph but I may just leave it as is. AFR's are still where they should be throughout the rev range.

Thanks, that's what I thought but still hesitant. I briefly hit 90% injector duty at peak power. Been like that for years and done heaps of track days without blowing up. Not sure if it should be getting to that sort of %. Running Nismo 740cc taps for injectors. Making 312rwkw.  AFR is a bit rich at full tilt. Somewhere in the high 10's low 11's. 

What sort of duty cycle would you expect to see at my power level with my injectors, pump is grounded with relay mod and better wiring. Standard 25 year old alternator. 

I'm pretty sure that AEM 340 lph/DW300/Aeromotive 340 lph are all really the same factory making roughly the same pump give or take. You could replace it just for fun but failures of this stuff tend to be a bathtub curve, you could get unlucky and get a DOA/early failure. If you're at the other extreme of lifetime for your existing pump then it still probably makes sense to get a new pump in there despite the chance of getting a bad pump.

[BK]

Yeah the 340lph AEM, Aeromotive and DWs look pretty much identical. The AEM 400lph external though is the same physical size / envelope as a Bosch 044 but flows more and is E85 compatible, which makes them perfect for people who had 044 surge tank setups like me to replace the pumps without reinventing the wheel on existing setups. I've had good results with the AEMs so I'll be sticking with them for now.

The Walbro 525lph which we're using in the other 32 with PWM appears so far to be better than the 460, but the AMPS ! The current draw is massive at full load and lots of fuel output at low loads without PWM so not exactly a drop in solution for anyone.

[Duncan]

I just keep a spare of the lift and main fuel pump in the track parts kit. Easy enough to swap over if one fails, and easy to tell if one fails with fuel pressure alarm/display/logging

[admS15]

Op can have another 2nd hand fuel pump for free when I pull it out.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

On 06/08/2022 at 4:04 PM, admS15 said:

If you where me, would you leave the pump as is or replace it with a new one?

I recall it's not that old, if I were you I would just take it out and check the strainer at the very least.

And since you're already there, why not replace the pump 😎

[Old man 32 GTR]

Well if you’re going to upgrade…

 

[joshuaho96]

On 8/13/2022 at 4:14 PM, Old man 32 GTR said:

Well if you’re going to upgrade…

 

1100 lph is wild overkill for most applications, Deatschwerks has a 440 lph brushless with install kit for S14/S15 Silvia and comparable vehicles.