Why am I hitting a power wall with my stroked RB25?

[Predator1]

11 hours ago, TurboTapin said:

It's a 6boost, T4 twin scroll, twin gate. Have issues been popping up with the Artec's? 

Issues? More like they if they were the only manifold on earth, I would rather go drown in a pool of dogshit

They were proven to be crap at everything.. chokes, makes far less power then 6boost, and is just something that deserves to be in the bin.

[WR33KD]

Im No tuner but….

im running a 25det with north of 600wkw at 9000rpm e85 and water meth. G40 1150 on 32psi. Having a real built head will flow a crap ton more power but you being stuck at 7600 won’t be helping at all, throw all the boost you can and nothing will happen. Solid lifter and 9000rpm is the only way, 

I have built my motor 3 times, not from engine failure but more along the lines of my failures in not understanding engine parts better, basic phrase to help, “block hold power”  “head make power” 

 

[MBS206]

6 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

I didn't even know that existed!!!

Amazing, good work Andy at Haltech!

A bit off topic here, but I actually met Andy at a Aus Lancer car meet at the old Shell Space Station in Ryde back in 2003 or so. He brought out this aluminium case and showed everyone this basic circuit and said he was making an ECU that was capable of using closed loop to self tune. Most of the people there dismissed his idea.

I knew Andy from about then, it did some cool stuff.

By 2005/2006 era, he also implemented closed loop ignition timing tuning.

In 2004 it was pretty cool, being with him when he was doing automated fast self learning tuning!

[TurboTapin]

On 07/10/2025 at 2:28 AM, WR33KD said:

Im No tuner but….

im running a 25det with north of 600wkw at 9000rpm e85 and water meth. G40 1150 on 32psi. Having a real built head will flow a crap ton more power but you being stuck at 7600 won’t be helping at all, throw all the boost you can and nothing will happen. Solid lifter and 9000rpm is the only way, 

I have built my motor 3 times, not from engine failure but more along the lines of my failures in not understanding engine parts better, basic phrase to help, “block hold power”  “head make power” 

 

I couldn't agree more. I should have started from the get-go with a NEO or solid bucket conversion. I started looking into converting over to solid lifters yesterday. Now for some reason I was always under the impression that when using the Tomei solid lifter conversion, you would also require new valves (Longer or shorter stems, I can't remember which). 

But I see no mention of this on any of the Tomei documentation. It just states that I need the Tomei solid buckets, solid lifter cams and upgraded springs. As my head is already built, all I would need is another set of 1000$ Kelford cams, 500$ buckets and about 4H hours of my time installing and I'm off to the races!?!? There's no way it's that simple, I must be missing something? 

Edited Wednesday at 11:58 AM by TurboTapin

[Butters]

On 06/10/2025 at 8:52 PM, TurboTapin said:

 

94AKI so I believe it's roughly 100-101ron. We don't have E85 at the pump in Canada, so it's either race gas or water methanol injection. I run a 50/50 mix. Since 4$ a liter race gas is expensive, WMI is often used here. I'm currently running a constant pressure system with direct port nozzles. We tend to see roughly the same from WMI as we do on E85 race gas. Fueling is not my issue. 

Have you seen anyone run more than say 520kw(~700WHP) on a mainline limited at 7600RPM on a 6466? This is the sort of comparison I'm looking for. If I could rev it up to 8500-9000rpm, I believe I would be seeing the HP I was originally expecting. Thanks. 

Would love to see some examples of WMI making the same as E85. Only thing I've ever found is this one.  Which suggests WMI is not worth much at all. 

Edited 22 hours ago by Butters

[GTSBoy]

2 hours ago, Butters said:

Would love to see some examples of WMI making the same as E85. Only thing I've ever found is this one.  Which suggests WMI is not worth much at all. 

You can literally put in as much WMI as it takes to quench the combustion totally (and then back it off a little, obviously), and it will keep making more and more power. The power comes from the cooling effect of the water (and the meth) and the extra fuel (the meth, which also has massive octane).

It is effectively exactly like running E85. One might be slightly better than the other, but they are damn close. But with either you can lean on the boost or the timing (or both) waaaay more than with just petrol and the results are similar.

Here's the first thing I googled for an anecdotal bit of evidence. Can't access the attachment without being a gold member, but it is there for the getting if able to, or searched up elsewise perhaps.

https://www.hpacademy.com/forum/general-tuning-discussion/show/wmi-vs-e85/

[TurboTapin]

8 hours ago, Butters said:

Would love to see some examples of WMI making the same as E85. Only thing I've ever found is this one.  Which suggests WMI is not worth much at all. 

I believe you're confusing WMI with water injection. Looking at that graph, the 93aki+WMI car is making more power than C16 race gas. Boost juice, which is what I also run, is Snow Performances 50/50 premix. 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Yeah my thoughts are the same, a well thought out WMI setup, would be slightly ahead of just straight E85 and you're also chemically intercooling the charged air, dropping it even further.

This is why you need to add so much more fuel as soon as you spray. I remember someone taking me through their set up before (Dennis, has a R33, lives around Cabramatta - no idea if he's still around on this forum). He would target AFR 10:1 on 98, then as WMI ramped on, AFR would lean back up to 11:1. Amazingly, he did this all through his PowerFC, a relay to cut power to his EBC solenoid if there was not enough line pressure on his WMI kit. And of course, if there wasn't any boost made above gate pressure, you wouldn't be accessing the load cells with heaps of timing for WMI.

One downside to that rudimentary setup, once the WMI came on, the EBC would unleash the dragon, and of course all the timing. Tyres would fry lol.

[TurboTapin]

23 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Yeah my thoughts are the same, a well thought out WMI setup, would be slightly ahead of just straight E85 and you're also chemically intercooling the charged air, dropping it even further.

This is why you need to add so much more fuel as soon as you spray. I remember someone taking me through their set up before (Dennis, has a R33, lives around Cabramatta - no idea if he's still around on this forum). He would target AFR 10:1 on 98, then as WMI ramped on, AFR would lean back up to 11:1. Amazingly, he did this all through his PowerFC, a relay to cut power to his EBC solenoid if there was not enough line pressure on his WMI kit. And of course, if there wasn't any boost made above gate pressure, you wouldn't be accessing the load cells with heaps of timing for WMI.

One downside to that rudimentary setup, once the WMI came on, the EBC would unleash the dragon, and of course all the timing. Tyres would fry lol.

Oh how times have changed! I actually lean it out relative to my water/methanol injector duty cycle. The methanol adds a lot of fueling and you can then lean it out even more due to reduced knock. 

Edited 12 hours ago by TurboTapin