Lithium

Yep, which is why I prefer the HTA turbos - they tend to go the other way. Compare some of these sizes (rounded to the nearest whole so I don't have to remember specifics): 3076: HTA - 55mm/76mm GT - 57mm/76mm GTX - 58mm/77mm 3582: HTA - 59mm/82mm GT - 61mm/82mm GTX - 63mm/83mm HTA86 - 62mm/86mm So before you even get into the more aggressively focussed on outright performance than the GT/GTX which are intended for industrial use that the HTA wheels have, you have smaller/lighter wheels which can make more power than the GT equivalents. As much as I love the HTA turbos, that's surprising to me - I know people who have gone GT3582R to HTA3586 and lost a bit of low down (though once up on threshold the response has been good), though that has been on 2litre engines to be fair and the 3litre probably has enough natural torque for that to not be a noticeable issue. The HTA3586 is also a weapon of a thing, though - so the fact it even comes into this conversation says a lot!

We discussed you going from a GTX to a GT back in March - though you were talking about going .63 open T3 at the time: AngryRB: 1) Do you think this makes sense to switch to a GT3076 0.63? 2) Will the transient response be worth this switch? Lith: 1) To me, no - it sounds like a lot of effort and going to the GT wheel result in a backwards evolution, you have a more modern turbo now that makes more power for the spool trade off. How much power are you after? Is the current level pretty much on target? 2) Again, I doubt it - the transient response difference is likely (never actually driven a GTX3076R myself mind you) to be pretty similiar, all things being equal. The biggest difference will be the .63 vs .82 housing I reckon, and when I went from .63 to .82 I didn't really lose much transient response at all - really the main difference in lag was under 3500rpm... once the turbo was spinning it was much of a muchness. I also went on to mention that I thought the likes of an HTA3073 would be more rewarding. So basically I am not surprised at all that you haven't had a day and night difference in performance, I expect it WILL improve with a tune but still nothing incredible. One of the frustrating things about forums which have seriously dropped my enthusiasm for trying to help out is when people ask for help on deciding things, just listen to the stuff which validates what they are intending on doing anyway, then do it and then blame the "lack of success" on the wrong thing when they've already been told more or less what to expect when heading down certain paths. I don't agree at all with your hypothesis, and the only reason you should be venting your disappointment in this thread should be that you are disappointed that you didn't go for an HTA instead of going to an old cast Garrett GT compressor wheel.

Well this is a bit shit, the new compressor cover doesn't fit over the compressor wheel - the turbo we have is SUPPOSED to be a 16G, and the new compressor cover is SUPPOSED to be for a 16G - but the compressor wheel is absolutely too large for the new cover. Will be interesting to hear back from Kando Dynamics to see if either the new cover is too small for the 16G, or if the new turbo (the owner of it has it and I've asked him to try measuring it - he's just measured the housings so far) actually is something different to a 16G. In more positive news the Silvia is still all go for an 18psi power run on Saturday, no tuning will be done on the dyno so hopefully the tidy ups on the road since the porting etc (to fix creep) are enough to give a reasonable result

All good man, glad the punt paid off! Being the first can have it's pros and cons - but everything was there in theory for it to be a good result, and it speaks for itself in regards to how well these Garrett/FP units work. It's a shame there is such stigma about "these work on xxx but won't work on yyy" - while a turbo may work better on one motor than another (depending on flow, pressure ratio etc match-up) when you have the kind of results etc that are already available for the HTAs its a pretty safe bet that a lot of their units are perfect for RBs This. Trying not to nag him, but been gagging to hear how it goes when the car is behaving and he gets to loosen it's leash I am pretty sure he's due to have taken it out for some racing by now

In this case however we know that a normal GT3076R can supply up around 20psi in the high rpm on a fairly mild RB25DET without too much issue, so falling to 16psi up high suggests another issue which changing the turbo won't guarantee fixing. On the flipside, if extra power without extra lag is an end target then going from a .63 GT3076R to a .82 HTA GT3076R sounds like quite a step up - a MASSIVE improvement in power potential and the odds are a nicer overall drive to be had, going from 34GeeTeeTee's results. Whether it is worth the money spent can really be a case of "in the eye of the beholder". Depends on how much power he wants, or how happy he is with what he has now.

This will be interesting to see, when is it hitting the dyno?

Yep people seem to treat this kind of thing as too good to be true, here in NZ it seems that largely people are uninterested or unconvinced at the new turbo choices from the likes of Precision, BW, Forced Performance - the Garrett GTX are getting some popularity, just because it's Garrett I guess. A bit of a shame really, the 6466 is just an amazing turbo from all accounts! Wanting to see the dyno plot for me is so I can see how it comes on boost on an RB, most other countries stopped using T04Zs YEARS ago while NZ (and Oz even?) are still playing with them - given we're some of the bigger RB modifiers it means that there are lots of results around for them being a single turbo of choice, I'd love to see how the 6466 compares to a T04Z in terms of 'coming alive'.

The EVO 16G (which is the compressor used in the one we are using on both SR20s) is a very good and often underestimated beast, again on 18psi the stock SR20DET is making pretty respectable power - the exact amount will be confirmed next weekend, and as you say they can be pushed past that to make even more. We've just capped it there because of the fact the car is on a stock motor and will be used for track racing, if the engine gets toughened up we'll push harder.

There are billet 16G, 18G and 20G turbos which Kando are selling with that housing but he sent one for the cast 16G we have here so presumably the same profile (since he recommended and sent it) and therefore can be used on any of that range of wheel sizes.

Nah, haven't tried a billet version yet. The GTiR isn't going to be working the turbo very hard anyway so the extra flow isn't needed from it, even the Silvia with it's ~18psi isn't showing any signs of stressing the cast 16G6 wheel and despite that as it is it is probably making enough power to be making a stock bottom end SR20DET being used in a track car feel the burn, so more flow is really not needed at this stage. Yep, as per the pic - internal blow off valve

After some investigation and discussion with Eiji this was the chosen solution to this little problem - have to say, very impressed with the customer service and quality of these units so far!

Probably have to convince the owners or JEM to share them, as it doesn't seem to be SAU member results. Its well known the 6466 and 6766 are good for this kind of power, though.

Cheers for clarifying, as I mentioned I am not sure on the specs - you can surely see how I'd assume an SS1 would be smaller or more responsive than an SS1.5? Instead of speculating (there are too many claims of these HG turbos doing everything infinitely better than all of its competition without back to back proof) can you confirm the question I asked, is there going to be a comparison between the original TD05 and the new HG hybrid version? It would be very interesting to see

If I was back at primary school and doodling pictures of transformers that didn't exist yet - that is exactly what my Nun-o-bot would look like if someone had inserted a pipe into one of her eyes

Man that price seems pretty reasonable! Kando turbos have been used for ages now, so one would assume the turbine housings are being cast to an acceptable level. HKS did GT3037s with .73a/r turbine housings and people seemed pretty happy with those from memory, could hunt around and see how they perform - would assume Kando have used that as a template of sorts. Burst containment is more to do with compressor housings than turbine housings, compressor housings are made of alloys are a bit trickier to contain exploding alloy - the turbine housings are probably a bit less of a risk in that sense. What fuel are you running? Depending on dyno, engine setup and fuel you may not hit that 330kw mark with a normal GT3076R

Its different to the full SS1 PU? From memory GTScoTT runs a billet SS1 PU (I could be mistaken, I'm still getting used to names and conventions) on his SR20 and it is laggier than the Kinugawa TD05 (same as you pictured above with antisurge) - we are seeing 18psi under 3500rpm in 3rd gear, or by 3500rpm on the dyno on a stock engine. Antisurge hasn't appeared to cost any performance, but it would be interesting to see what the spool and power difference is with your high flow as the engine will not stay stock forever and I hae no doubt that your highflow is capable of more power

Was some interesting conversation in there, look forward to seeing what "way forward" is chosen for the choked-on-SS2 car ends up with... assuming it has decent cams etc too? Nice - very keen to see the results on that, we are using the same turbo on a couple of SR20s. Is there likely to be comparison results from that setup?

Hmm interesting - if it were enough porting to cause that effect then that potentially means too much porting, I'd have thought! Its not miles behind in power for 8deg less timing though, at least?

So in theory the new one may be higher flowing? Here's Stao's post that made me think the 312kw was an old version http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/index.php?/topic/261613-Hypergear-Hiflow-Service-Continued.#entry6948624

That is good to know. In response to the 284kw result Stao referred to the 312kw version as the old version, what has changed?

Thought that could be the case - any examples out of curiosity? I did a search for "FNT" and the only result that came up for me was Hanaldo's which I have the impression the entire setup has never quite delivered for him, yet?

Have there actually been results with these turbos on an RB25 making more power on straight pump gas? I've made noises about the wondering how the VNT/FNT technology would perform on pump gas when being leaned on - partly because I am curious about how exhaust manifold pressure is going to behave with what could be defined as obstructions along the flow path towards the turbine. E85 can mask some effects of soaring pressure (ie, being much more knock resistant) but with pump gas it is going to start complaining quite quickly if it is a bit excessive. The principle behind VNT could easily be thought of as being equivalent to being variable A/R in regards to it's effect, and relies heavily on correct actuation to not become a restriction at the wrong point and also providing good spool - however how FNT has had me fascinated is that surely there is the potential that it has the net effect of providing a larger a/r that flows (and spools) like a smaller one, to some degree defeating the purpose? I have been specifically waiting for pump gas results to see how these go and this is the first FNT I have noticed being leaned on using pump gas and the result is what I would have expected with "nozzles" angled to boost spool which don't adjust once flow requirements increase. There may be results for this setup which prove that it is fine, so I am absolutely by no means suggesting that I believe there would be an issue with it - I am just voicing an idea which hopefully can easily be proven wrong to eliminate, or otherwise provide a possible explanation.

555cc injectors on E85 will be very power limiting... like <300kw

It's not just a/r which can cause it - too small a turbine housing, other blockages down stream of the turbo (collapsed cat/generally too restrictive exhaust) etc can cause that. Is it an "FNT" turbo?

In other news, the T25 flanged internal gate TD05-16G6 with 3" intake doesn't fit on a GTiR Pulsar. Hair pulling to ensue... but we are running the S14 on ~E85 at 18psi on the 17th August up on the dyno for a couple of power runs using whatever tune I was able to cobble together with boost creep last month to see how it all looks and get a final number. It is a dyno day, and we all are used to DIN correction so guarantee we'll at least be able to get graph with that but I'll request an SAE 2004 plot as well if it isn't too much of an issue for them. This is using a Dynapack with "large" pods and up to date software, so in the scheme of things an SAE 2004 corrected plot on that dyno should if anything be a "realistic" figure by SAU standards going from other threads.