Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

I've been quoted for a day's labour for it to be done with the engine in. Is this realistic? Also is there more room for error when the engine hasn't been removed, therefore creating problems?

I'd say pump is bigger?

More flow and pressure than stock....at the same rpm.

damn that could be bad then as i want to use this car for drift, i dont want to much oil getting to the head, mmmm or maybe it will just read at 4 on first start up cause the oil is cold, i havent driven the car yet or let the oil warm up so most likely it will drop in oil pressure with the oil been warm? any thoughts about this?

cheers jv

Hey guys, is it possible to install a Sump Baffle Kit without pulling out the engine? I've rang about 5 workshops, and out of those 5 only one was willing to do it without pulling out the engine, so I wonder whether it can be done at all or if it can be done but it will be a shit job.

yes it can be done

Boostworx in SA do it that way

I'm not sure of the exact details of how its done but its easy to do apparently

Cubes might know

damn that could be bad then as i want to use this car for drift, i dont want to much oil getting to the head, mmmm or maybe it will just read at 4 on first start up cause the oil is cold, i havent driven the car yet or let the oil warm up so most likely it will drop in oil pressure with the oil been warm? any thoughts about this?

cheers jv

When oil is at 80 degrees temp it should be at around (roughly) 20 psi

When it's cold oil pressure will be a lot higher.

What size is recommended for the return line coming from the back of the head to the sump. I was thinking about having a plug pressed into the back of the head that extends slightly outwards towards the rear of the car like other have done before instead of having to put a 90 Degree elbow back there. I was just curious what size (AN) the fitting and line should be.

its possible but not easy to do in the car. I was most worried about properly cleaning and resealing the sump with goop. so I took it out instead.

if enough of that stuff gets stuck in your oil pickup, bye bye motor

i did the rb30det oil pump with engine in the car, did not take the sump completly out. used heaps of goo and its not leaking so all is good :blink:

its possible but not easy to do in the car. I was most worried about properly cleaning and resealing the sump with goop. so I took it out instead.

if enough of that stuff gets stuck in your oil pickup, bye bye motor

  • 3 weeks later...

Hello,

These are recommended to do for drag/circuit or drift cars with after market oil pumps

QOUTE

1.Block off one oil feed in the block (RB26’s have this standard)

2.Fit an appropriately sized restrictor to the other feed. The size of the oil pump is one of the determinates for the size of the restrictor, ie; a high flow, high pressure pump needs a smaller restrictor. Constant higher RPM needs a smaller restrictor etc.

3. Fit an external oil return from the rear of the cylinder head to the sump

4. Drill out the oil return galleries in the head and block

5. Machine around the oil return galleries to facilitate access for the oil

QUOTE

I am running a N1 pump.

Can anyone give me the right sizes I will need to drill out.

1-the sump(5) 2mm holes to?

2-the return oil supply to the sump(Block and Head) to?

A 1.5mm Tomie restrictor and Sump baffle will be used and No external oil return.

The car will mostly be run on the street with little or no drag/circuit use.

Thanks in advance?

I hope this helps with the external drain..

fitting2.jpg

This is a fitting that i made for the oil return... As for oil restrictor i am not 100% sure but people run a 1.5mm tomei one or a brass one like i have made..

DSC01197.jpg

Hope this helps

regarding restrictors and such, what kind of restrictors should one use on a rb20 using a n1 oil pump?

also ive a shot the back of my head and not sure where i should fit the external drain, advice on both q's is always appreciated.

  • 3 weeks later...
Sorry to bring this back from the dead.

I plan on doing Tomei sump mod, and probably the line from rear of head to sump.

I talked to my machnist and he says the restrictor seems like a reasonable idea to limit flow for oil surge issue. The problem he says for my application is he's worried about the hydraulic lifters with the oil gallery restrictor. He described a VERY similar problem that can happen to the individual on this forum who ended up having lifter noise.

My application is for street driving and occasional/frequent drag racing and less occasional road racing.

The restrictor gives lower oil pressure in the galleys for the lifters. This lower pressure allows entrained air in the oil supply to coalesce and interfere with lifter operations. Under higher pressure in the circuit prior to the restrictor the bubbles are smaller. This decrease in size is one of the reasons high pressure is used in oil circuits.

If you are running mechanical versus hydraulic lifters restricting the oil supply to the head is less problematic with respect to entrained air.

I am trying to do as much research as possible on the RB motors, and being from the USA makes it a lil difficult as the motor is rare, and most information is in Japanese. I have an RB20DET, and the last thing I want is oil starvation, as the parts to repair it are expensive and hard to come by. I do have a few questions regarding this topic.

-It seems this is an issue with all RB motors, is this true?

-Will restricting the oil to the head cause any problems?

-Has anyone considered having their crankshaft, connecting rods, and the underside of their pistons coated with an oil shedding material such as teflon?

If this is an issue with all RB series motors why didnt Nissan address the issue by restricting oil to the head from the factory? Did they determine that reducing oil to the head would cause more harm? An oil shedding material coating the internals of the engine would allow the pan to fill faster, and create more horsepower as the RPMs climbed.

One of the restrictions on the efforts of the Nissan engineers was/is the "corporate" hump in the rear of the oil pan. This hump is present to allow easier access to torque converter bolts (I was told this and assume it is correct). The hump creates a large problem because under high G conditions the oil naturally migrates to the rear of the pan. The volume that the hump displaces and its ramping effect create a churning zone for oil where the oil becomes highly aerated -- this is also the principal drain zone for the heads. Get rid of the hump. If you carefully examine the engineering on the SR20 you can see the problems the designers had with the local high pressure zone created in the 4th bay by the hump.

Increasing the amount of oil in the pan is problematic because at the G-limit of the design the excess oil naturally migrates to this same zone. This situation parallels the failure mode for the Toyota 2ZZ engine in the Spyder and Elise, both of which can exceed the 1G design limit of the stock pan. The high aeration of the oil causes the failure of the Geroter pump. If the pump can withstand the aeration then the problem would shift to the first rods to receive the mixture. In the Porsche 928 and 944 engines this lead to the classic 2/6 rod failures. Looking at the Tomei drawing of the oil circuit it looks like rods three and four would be hit. Failures of the number 6 cylinder would likely be due to localized overloading of the ring pack and detonation or incipient detonation. Because of the hump there is no windage control in the last bay. A good solution to this would be a dual pump as in the BMW M3 (S50 engine) where the secondary pump could scavange from this zone and transport the oil back to the sump well. This is passing into the transition from wetsumps to drysumps. The Porsche integrated drysump takes this a step further (a type of active wetsump).

I only have an RB26DETT pan (with AWD) to look at. In this pan, the witness marks from the oil indicate that it normally operates with 2 quarts or liters resident in the sump proper, the balance being in circulation. This is a fairly typical amount.

"I only have an RB26DETT pan (with AWD) to look at. In this pan, the witness marks from the oil indicate that it normally operates with 2 quarts or liters resident in the sump proper, the balance being in circulation. This is a fairly typical amount."

absolutely agreed....in road car use. as soon as you keep the revs up for a while they run dangerously low on available oil for the pick up.

you obviously have extensive experience with oil issues - how would you modify the sump for more reliable oil pick up??

"I only have an RB26DETT pan (with AWD) to look at. In this pan, the witness marks from the oil indicate that it normally operates with 2 quarts or liters resident in the sump proper, the balance being in circulation. This is a fairly typical amount."

absolutely agreed....in road car use. as soon as you keep the revs up for a while they run dangerously low on available oil for the pick up.

you obviously have extensive experience with oil issues - how would you modify the sump for more reliable oil pick up??

I heard of people putting trap door systems into their sump..Its like a little box with flaps to let oil into the box and keep it there (i think that this is the principle behind it). This is an option.

  • 3 weeks later...

i found this today but im not sure what the note means this is what it said,(combine with std Orifice use For RB25&20, ONLY solid type is available (cannot used on lash type) can some one translate.

post-26570-1226727482_thumb.jpg

post-26570-1226727838_thumb.jpg

  • 3 months later...

hey hope you guys can help a gimp out

I a building an rb30det for street use and have a few questions. I am running the rb25de head (non vvt) and am wondering which feed i restrict and which i block off, i understand there are only 2?

do i block off the one closest to flywheel or closest to cam gears? Does any one have a photo or drawing of the job (birds eye view or something)?

Hope you can help a nub out

Cheers

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Update 3: Hi all It's been a while. Quite a lot of things happened in the meantime, among other things the car is (almost) back together and ready to be started again. Things that I fixed or changed: Full turbo removal, fitting back the OEM turbo oil hardlines. Had to do quite a bit of research and parts shopping to get every last piece that I need and make it work with the GT2860 turbos, but it does work and is not hard to do. Proves that the previous owner(s) just did not want to. While I was there I set the preload for the wastegates to 0,9bar to hopefully make it easier for the tuner to hit the 370hp I need for the legal inspections that will follow later on. Boost can always go up if necessary. Fitted a AN10 line from the catch can to the intake hose to make the catchcan and hopefully the cam covers a slight vacuum to have less restrictive oil returns from the head and not have mud build up as harshly in the lines and catch can. Removed the entire front interior just shy of the dashboard itself to clean up some of the absolutely horrendous wiring, (hopefully) fix the bumpy tacho and put in LED bulbs while I was there. Also put in bulbs where there was none before, like the airbag one. I also used that chance to remove the LED rpm gauge on the steering column, which was also wired in absolute horror show fashion. Moved the 4in1 Prosport gauge from sitting in front of the OEM oil pressure gauge to the center console vents, I used a 3D printed vent piece to hold that gauge there. The HKB steering wheel boss was likely on incorrectly as I sometimes noticed the indicator reset being uneven for left vs. right. In the meantime also installed an airbag delete resistor, as one should. Installed Cube Speed premium short shifter. Feels pretty nice, hope it'll work great too when I actually get to drive. Also put on a fancy Dragon Ball shift knob, cause why not. My buddy was kind enough to weld the rust hole in the back, it was basically rusted through in the lowermost corner of the passenger side trunk area where the wheel arch, trunk panel and rear quarter all meet. Obviously there is still a lot of crustiness in various areas but as long as it's not rusted out I'll just treat and isolate the corrosion and pretend it's not there. Also had to put down a new ground wire for the rear subframe as the original one was BARELY there. Probably a bit controversial depending on who you ask about this... but I ended up just covering the crack in the side of the engine block, the one above the oil feed, with JB Weld. I used a generous amount and roughed up the whole area with a Dremel before, so I hope this will hold the coolant where it should be for the foreseeable future. Did a cam cover gasket job as the half moons were a bit leaky, and there too one could see the people who worked on this car before me were absolute tools. The same half moons were probably used like 3 times without even cleaning the old RTV off. Dremeled out the inside of the flange where the turbine housing mates onto the exhaust manifolds so the diameter matches, as the OEM exhaust manifolds are even narrower than the turbine housings as we all know. Even if this doesn't do much, I had them out anyways, so can't harm. Ideally one would port-match both the turbo and the manifold to the gasket size but I really didn't feel up to disassembling the turbine housings. Wrapped turbo outlet dumps in heat wrap band. Will do the frontpipe again as well as now the oil leak which promted me to tear apart half the engine in the first place is hopefully fixed. Fitted an ATI super damper to get rid of the worn old harmonic balancer. Surely one of the easiest and most worth to do mods. But torquing that ARP bolt to spec was a bitch without being able to lock the flywheel. Did some minor adjustments in the ECU tables to change some things I didn't like, like the launch control that was ALWAYS active. Treated rusty spots and surface corrosion on places I could get to and on many spots under the car, not pretty or ideal but good enough for now. Removed the N1 rear spats and the carbon surrounding for the tailpipe to put them back on with new adhesive as the old one was lifting in many spots, not pretty. Took out the passenger rear lamp housing... what do you know. Amateur work screwed me again here as they were glued in hard and removing it took a lot of force, so I broke one of the housing bolts off. And when removing the adhesive from the chassis the paint came right off too. Thankfully all the damaged area won't be visible later, but whoever did the very limited bodywork on this car needs to have their limbs chopped off piece by piece.   Quite a list if I do say so myself, but a lot of time was spent just discovering new shit that is wrong with the car and finding a solution or parts to fix it. My last problem that I now have the headache of dealing with is that the exhaust studs on the turbo outlets are M10x1.25 threaded, but the previous owner already put on regular M10 nuts so the threads are... weird. I only found this out the hard way. So now I will just try if I can in any way fit the front pipe regardless, if not I'll have to redo the studs with the turbos installed. Lesson learned for the future: Redo ALL studs you put your hands on, especially if they are old and the previous owners were inept maniacs. Thanks for reading if you did, will update when the engine runs again. Hope nothing breaks or leaks and I can do a test drive.
    • No those pads are DBA too  but they have colors too. I look at the and imo the green "street" are the best.
    • I’m not sure what happened I told them about sonic tunes free OTS tune and the next the I know .. I was booted..   To funny 
    • Yea - I mean I've seen my fuel pump which is decades old and uh, while I'm not saying this with real knowledge... but I sure get the ick at using anything in the fuel system that produced the state of that pump. Many years ago I went through multiple pumps (and strainers) before I dropped the tank to clean it out with extreme violence. I'm talking the car would do maybe 50km before coming to a halt, which resulted in me cleaning out the filter with some brake cleaner and going on my way. None of my stuff ever looked like what came out of your fuel tank. I don't think I'd be happy with it unless every single component was replaced (or at least checked/cleaned/confirmed to be clean here).
×
×
  • Create New...