Just How Good Can A Skyline Handle?

[Lachlan33]

Currently on stock suspension I wouldn't say my car handles all that well. It gets pretty fierce understeer when going into a corner to quick, gets tyre squeal easy etc. It handles better than my old magna, but like I said I wouldn't exactly call it racecar material.

Is this down to the car in general or with a decent set of shocks and springs, swaybars, strut braces all that sort of stuff, just what sort of difference would I see/feel?

Im mainly talking about a 33 GTS-T here, obviously a GTR is going to handle a crap load better. Those who have gtst's and went from stock suspension to something decent, just what sort of difference did it make?

I would imagen for example, that a well setup 180sx is going to school a 33 with a similar setup on the track (assuming equal power), or am I mistaken?

Im sure driving ability also has a fair bit to do with it.

Reason I ask is im looking at upgrading my suspension, last year I got a ride in a bentley continental GT, and my god.....that thing was taking corners I wouldn't have dared try in my car, and the Bentley weighs over 2tons!

crazy stuff...

[Duncan]

well actually the gtst is a pretty good handler, not too heavy and has good double wishbone suspension all around, for sure it could handle better than a bentley.

The first place to start is quality tyres, and then probably sway bars. And I wouldn't assume a gtr will handle better they have a similar setup but 200kg more, so a gtst should get around a corner quicker than a gtr (but the gtr will pull out of the corner quicker of course).

As for a gtst against a 180sx.....not sure, the 180 weighs less again but has crappy old strut suspension at the back....I guess it would be pretty line ball between them.

[STATUS]

As for a gtst against a 180sx.....not sure, the 180 weighs less again but has crappy old strut suspension at the back....I guess it would be pretty line ball between them.

Close... 180sx and gtst rear suspension is nearly identicle.... the front is Macpherson though. Both can be made to work very well just look at the super lap cars there are plenty of S15's lapping the same times as the GTRs. i agree they would lap about the same.

[tjandriesen]

Reason I ask is im looking at upgrading my suspension, last year I got a ride in a bentley continental GT, and my god.....that thing was taking corners I wouldn't have dared try in my car, and the Bentley weighs over 2tons!

The designers of luxury perfromance cars like the Bentley GT, etc. have a different objective than the designer of a lower costs performance car like a Skyline. When you spend Bentley money you expect it to perfrom but also to be effortless and smooth. Things like road feel are not part of the equation. It might feel like it handles better but put it on a track and you will see it isn't.

[evil_weevil]

I came from a VT commodore with some suspension work to my stock 33 gtst and the skyline handled alot better.

a good combined set up of springs shocks sway bars, caster and camber will improve the car a shitload!!!!!

I did the springs and shocks first and was really impressed!

still had a bit of understeer at the track though.

then did castor and sway bars and was again, a shitload better!

depends on your wallet

[Lachlan33]

The designers of luxury perfromance cars like the Bentley GT, etc. have a different objective than the designer of a lower costs performance car like a Skyline. When you spend Bentley money you expect it to perfrom but also to be effortless and smooth. Things like road feel are not part of the equation. It might feel like it handles better but put it on a track and you will see it isn't.

Hmm your probably right, given that Bentley's are luxury cars not supercars they probably don't handle all that well on a track, but it certainly handled better than my car would. We took it down some windys which I frequently drive, the guy was able to just throw it into corners and plant it, the AWD system just held on like nothing ive ever experienced before.

Although maybe it was just the sheer acceleration power and the awe of being in such a car, as you say on a track it probably doesn't do very well at all.

It sucked though, I got back in my car and felt like I was driving a Fiat panda with a couple of dropped cylinders.

[Kinks]

It gets pretty fierce understeer when going into a corner to quick

what do you want it to do when you overcook a corner? oversteer?

In standard trim the R33 handles very well. Off-throttle it is neutral to slight understeer through a corner with nice turn-in, and you can dial in a bit more cornering with the throttle and it really hooks through the corner (this is how you're supposed to drive a RWD car). If you put more throttle in it transitions to oversteer.

Perfect.

Note that grip and handling are quite different animals. A car that sticks like shit to a blanket but throws you into the wall the moment you step over the mark does NOT have good handling.

[Kranker]

Your R33 shouldnt plow understeer like you described.

Last model Celica on the other hand, drive one of then and you will gain a new understanding of the term understeer .

Could be that your just going in to the corner too fast, stick with the tried and true slow in fast out cornering technique, or maybe trail brake into the corner.

Couple of general guides for reducing understeer:

-More front neg camber

-More front pos castor

-Harder rear anti roll bar, and softer in front

-Stiffen rear springs and shocks, soften fronts

But to do this you need to invest in some quality suspension components.

Hope that helps.

[Duncan]

lol I single handedly swapped the front and rear suspension design of a 180sx in that post....maybe i need less grog before posting

[STATUS]

lol I single handedly swapped the front and rear suspension design of a 180sx in that post....maybe i need less grog before posting

no.... just share it with me.

[baron25]

try comparing your 33's handling to something else. i know when i went from driving a VN to my GTS, going back i found the VN handled like an oil tanker in comparison.

[DECIM8]

I back your tyres are crap .. Jump in a R34 vrs and R33 and the r34 shits on the stock 33 .. mainly because r34 has a stock sway in it ..

Dont forget stock r33 is using a 7" wide tyre .. so ur only gettin about 20cm x 15cm of tread on the road .. 9.5" will help it stick like shit to a blanket .. lovely .. just lovely

Oh and on the point .. they do handle pretty well compared to most cars .. lowered you'll see a big difference..

Edited June 18, 2007 by DECIM8

[Kinks]

9.5" will help it stick like shit to a blanket

grip and handling are different. handling is the behaviour of the car at the limit. All wider tyres do is raise the limit.

The RSPCA is going to ask me to stop doing things to that dead horse soon..

[Lachlan33]

Thanks for the input everyone, might have to invest in some decent swaybars

[MANWHORE]

I'll also put some input in here that I feel has been missed.

Yes, suspension, swaybars, alignment parts, bushes, strut braces etc do affect handling. But, have a think about a few other things too.

Tyres make an absolutely huge difference. You could have two identical cars (take a skyline as an example). On one, if you have just commuter shitty tyres, about 50% tread (so the rubber is most likely not soft and grippy anymore). This skyline will probably handle fairly ordinary. Because i'm used to grip, if I was to drive it, i'd say it would feel like crap. Then, if you take the other identical skyline, and whack on a set of brand new grippy street rubber (e.g. bridgestone s03 or falken st115/fk451) or a set of semis, and it would feel like a different car.

Tyre pressures make a huge difference too. Too hard = bad handling. too soft = bad handling. uneven = bad handling.

Keep in mind, that if you've got stock suspensions, not only are they stock, they are most likely worn. Whack a set of brand new stockies in there, and it'll feel like a different car.

Most older 33s and especially 32s (the ones that haven't had bushes and suspensions replaced) have worn suspensions and bushes, ball joints etc. All you need is one worn ball joint, and the car will handle like a one eyed billygoat.

Wheel alignment speaks for itself - huge impact.

As the others have said, i'd say that handling in the bentley would have been fairly ordinary. It may have felt fast, but whether it actually was, may be another story. Also, the components there are new, so theyr'e not worn out, whereas the ones in your car probably are worn or near worn.

spending money on handling can be really rewarding. It can totally change the way the car handles.

My car handled fairly ok on stock suspensions. But I bought the car from someone I knew in japan, when it was only a few years old, so everythign was in top nic.

[driftmeister]

I'm investing a lot on suspensions lately for my 34GTT cos i want to learn & understand what a good skyline is suppose to handle on street, back roads or maybe few track work. Installing Cusco adjustable casters arm, cambers front & rear, Nismo anti roll bars, Cusco stabiliser bar, Nismo R-Tunes suspension. Dialing & setting the R-Tune shock can be quite confusing with adjustment for front is 4 and rear is 8. Im using Falken RT 615 front and Toyo T1R Rear. One last thing, im using 34GTR original rims with 9J x 18 (30 offset).

What would the best adjustment setting when i take it to the alignment shop?

Should we setup for slight understeer or neutral or oversteer to maximise the road handling capability of the Skyline?

Is there anything i miss in terms of mods for the suspension?

[made_guy]

i wouldn't discount the handling of the bentley too much - they are worth big money for good reason, they're engineered to the eyeballs and the big weight and unassuming chassis can probably do better than you think. a well tuned suspension/tractioned skyline is surely pretty formiddable, but out of the box, the stock bentley would kill a stock skyline. those things, like most super-luxury cars nowadays hammer!!

that being said, if i was going to spend that sort of money on a car, you can bet your ass it wouldn't be on a bentley

[zebra]

Soz to kinda hijack this thread.....MANWHORE you mention tyre pressures. I run 36psi front and 34psi rear on 235/40/18s. does that sound right. the car handles pretty well even with stuffed shocks (waiting for funds to buy HKS hyper max 111s)

ANdrew

[discopotato03]

My biased opinion , Whitline SK works kit and a set of Michelin PP2's . Not cheap but very good compromise for mostly road and the odd track day . Capabilities better than many drivers out there and about the practical limit of money spent on a road car - for me anyway .

I think the R32-4 range are good things but front end weight and overall size are an issue particularly in the R33's and GTR's . Its difficult to add mechanical strength and durability without adding substantial weight so the more strength thats required the more it weighs and so the cycle continues . Front end weight is no great advantage particularly with RWD only - you can only fit so much rubber up front and the wider that gets the more the wheels weigh and the more critical it becomes to keep all that rubber on the road . Traction can suffer because of the front to rear weight "balance" .

4WD like the GTR/GTS4 has obvious advantages but it comes with a significant weight penalty . One of the things that I thought hard about was the early days of 4WD road cars specifically the Audi Quatro and the homologation version the Quato Sport rallied in the Group B era . Its worth buying a copy of the Video/DVD "Too fast to Race" because it really shows up the shortcomings of the Quatro Sports inline 5 cylinder engine and the driving techniques needed to "hinge" the car aroud its centre of rotation if you know what I mean . The film of Michelle Mutone and Walter Rohl driving those works cars is mind boggling but eventually the monster was beaten by the smaller Pergeot (Sp ?) 205 T16 with its mid mounted inline 4 .

The bottom line with any production car is working out how much its practical to spend and compare that against is there a superior platform out there in original form for similar money .

Going fast is not hard to do but getting it to go where you point it is a major issue . Seroius speed without handling potential is suicidal .

A

Edited June 23, 2007 by discopotato03

[MBS206]

Sounds like crap tyres.

I'm running a GTS-t R33 with GTS4 springs in it.

So stiffer springs in the front, which will create more understeer then stock springs.

And it only MILDLY understeers.

To me, it also sounds like poor driving (I'm not having a go, I used to do it too)

It sounds like your starting to feather the throttle way to early (I internally yell at myself everytime I take a corner so that I don't do it)

As you start to feather that throttle, you're lifting weight off the front tyres. Which is reducing traction.

Keep off the throttle till you're through the corner further, wait until you can SEE where you want to go, and then start to wind the throttle open. And no, more throttle does NOT equal oversteer.

Go do a skid pan day. It lowers the grip limits immensely (On concrete) and it shows you exactly how the car handles under breaking and stepping on the throttle and different amounts of steering (No, more steering won't make you turn in further all the time!)

But a start: Get some grippy tyres.