Nitrous Or Bigger Turbo ?

[rev210]

It wont happen overnight...but it will happen

to quote robocop " I'd buy that for a dollar! "

[TiTAN]

Go the turbo now, then later if you feel it does not spool up fast enough, get the nitrous to fix that issue

[B-Man]

Adrian - do you know much about the new 'NOS' sniper kit for EFI ??

Damn cheap - $500 for the full kit.

What's the catch ??

http://www.holley.com/07005NOS.asp

[Swiper the Fox]

Adrian - do you know much about the new 'NOS' sniper kit for EFI ??

Damn cheap - $500 for the full kit.

What's the catch ??

http://www.holley.com/07005NOS.asp

cheap solinoids, brackets and a small bottle

air freight and tax on top id say closer to $650

Edited June 5, 2008 by DiRTgarage

[B-Man]

There's one for $420 on ebay now, with no bids.

I've seen them for $480 buy it now

[Swiper the Fox]

There's one for $420 on ebay now, with no bids.

I've seen them for $480 buy it now

do it...bloody cheap KW's

[XRATED]

Pulsing generic solenoids is akin to throwing dynamite into the engine. They're not designed to be pulsed and anyone who argues otherwise is wrong.

Ha ha ha ha. Well daaaa!

Thats why you don't use a generic nitrous solinoid.... there are plenty of purpose built electronic delivery systems out there that use either a specially designed flow/delivery valve or purpose built multistaged solinoids that work together. I used a venom kit on a mates 240sx just recently in the US. It was great, even though it was a little old. You could program the delivery time.... so you could have it all in one big hit, or have it ramp up slowly, similar to a turbo comming on boost.

.... now I'm in La Ciotat France. NOOO one has nitrous here!

So I still say GAS!

[RB SANDY]

what will the kw boost be on a 200kw rb25

[drgnball34]

do what i did....T04Z and NOS

[2rismo]

The bracket is cheap but it's still a 10lb bottle. It's basically exactly what I've been using.

[2rismo]

Ha ha ha ha. Well daaaa!

Thats why you don't use a generic nitrous solinoid.... there are plenty of purpose built electronic delivery systems out there that use either a specially designed flow/delivery valve or purpose built multistaged solinoids that work together. I used a venom kit on a mates 240sx just recently in the US. It was great, even though it was a little old. You could program the delivery time.... so you could have it all in one big hit, or have it ramp up slowly, similar to a turbo comming on boost.

.... now I'm in La Ciotat France. NOOO one has nitrous here!

So I still say GAS!

EVERY nitrous oxide kit manufacturer on earth bar one uses generic solenoids that are NOT designed to operate with nitrous oxide and are NOT suitable for pulsing. These included NOS, NX, Wilson, Speedtech, NyTrex, NS and nearly every other brand you're probably aware of. The electronic controller absolutely and 100% can NOT compensate for this design flaw and actually accentuates the problem to the point of failure.

There are NOT 'plenty of specially designed flow/delivery valves' out there, there is one and it is not available for public sale just yet. Nor is there any such thing as a multistage solenoid. The nature of electric solenoids is that they are either open or closed - no half measures. Pulsing them simply opens and closes them rapidly to 'simulate' a partly opened valve.

[Rolls]

Ha ha ha ha. Well daaaa!

I'm not disagreeing, but why is it so dangerous? Surely your engine would be expecting it to be fully open eventually (if it did fail) anyway?

[2rismo]

I'm not disagreeing, but why is it so dangerous? Surely your engine would be expecting it to be fully open eventually (if it did fail) anyway?

The problem is two part. First, the engine may well only be able to deal with a certain quantity of nitrous at a given rpm level. If it gets the lot all at once, this can be bad. Secondly, and it's the core of the problem, is that pulsed generic solenoids fail sooner and more violently than unpulsed generic solenoids or purpose built 'pulsoids'. You get off the gas at the end of a run (track/dyno/whatever) and neither the fuel solenoid nor the nitrous one close. This is particularly bad when using a fuel cut rev-limiter - just another thing that can compound the problem.

[rev210]

Ha ha ha ha. Well daaaa!

Thats why you don't use a generic nitrous solinoid.... there are plenty of purpose built electronic delivery systems out there that use either a specially designed flow/delivery valve or purpose built multistaged solinoids that work together. I used a venom kit on a mates 240sx just recently in the US. It was great, even though it was a little old. You could program the delivery time.... so you could have it all in one big hit, or have it ramp up slowly, similar to a turbo comming on boost.

.... now I'm in La Ciotat France. NOOO one has nitrous here!

So I still say GAS!

I've actually heard of generic solenoids being used with a pulse box but, the consensus is that you need to rebuild the solenoid pretty often to make sure you avoid a locked one. Solenoids last for a certain number of 'switches' before wearing out. Pulsing them rapidly means they won't last long at all. I would never consider the entry level solenoids for doing something like this but, thankfully the bigger kits usually supply better solenoids.

On the cheap side I've heard of pusled 'air' solenoids being used as well, modified for the nitrous and fuel. They work but have a limit of 120-140hp in terms of fluid flow. The direct port versions of these require a pair for every cylinder. Being air pulsed solenoids they are designed to the high duty cycle and if fitted with nitrous / fuel tollerant seals I can't see a problem with them. But, being pulsed I would still treat them as a consumable for more frequent replacement. Actually nitrous solenoids always should be treated this way if you plan racing a car.

Edited June 6, 2008 by rev210

[2rismo]

I've actually heard of generic solenoids being used with a pulse box but, the consensus is that you need to rebuild the solenoid pretty often to make sure you avoid a locked one. Solenoids last for a certain number of 'switches' before wearing out. Pulsing them rapidly means they won't last long at all. I would never consider the entry level solenoids for doing something like this but, thankfully the bigger kits usually supply better solenoids.

On the cheap side I've heard of pusled 'air' solenoids being used as well, modified for the nitrous and fuel. They work but have a limit of 120-140hp in terms of fluid flow. The direct port versions of these require a pair for every cylinder. Being air pulsed solenoids they are designed to the high duty cycle and if fitted with nitrous / fuel tollerant seals I can't see a problem with them. But, being pulsed I would still treat them as a consumable for more frequent replacement. Actually nitrous solenoids always should be treated this way if you plan racing a car.

I should clarify. I'm not saying that you 'can't' pulse generic solenoids. Just that you shouldn't. Also, my definition of generic incorporates every single mass-market, mass produced, automotive nitrous oxide and fuel solenoid in the world.

Air solenoids tend to have a fairly large current draw and very poor flow paths within the solenoid (worse than generic nitrous solenoids) and create more problems than they solve.

[Guilt-Toy]

SAU Dyno day.. i remember that day. remember that run. damn that was a while ago now! was that 2005 ?

100hp gas and 4-deg less timing = 100hp at the tyres more horsepower.

[B-Man]

100HP is 75kw.

So even if my little Fj is making 200kw at the wheels, which 100HP shot that brings it up to 275kw

Which is not far from my old R33 withthe HKS3040 - and about 600kgs lighter.

YES !

I'm going to get me some GAS !

[rb26s13]

100hp gas and 4-deg less timing = 100hp at the tyres more horsepower.

ive never really taken much notice of gas before.. but was it to risky running the extra 4 degrees of timing with it? or was it taken out just as a safety messure?

[Lithium]

My vote is definitely bigger turbo. Enjoy it whenever you want, and if you go too big - then you can go NOS

Nitrous is very hard on gudgeon pins...bigger turbo please.

ive just done the same thing...tossed up between putting a bigger turbo on our set-up and turning on the gas (i already have a kit installed in our car)...i went with a bigger turbo

Ohh upgrading from the GT-RS?? Single turbo time??

[Beer Baron]

do both, and if you want some nos it might be worth talking to herman at envy imports. they are big on nos at the moment and have done quite a few installs lately. plus they now have big arse NOS charging station in their shop, and I know they are close to you too in brooky.

and I still say do both. afterall the ultimate goal here is to chirp seconds and that's not going to happen with this current "turbo OR nos" attitude....