Deciding Whether Or Not To Build A Cheap Track Car

[Marlin]

A trailer is a good investment anyway...... takes the stress right out of breaking your car!

[R33_Dude]

for the track IMO either something light like these over the ones you have chosen:

EVO 3/GSR lancer:

MR2

MX5

all can be picked up for sub $10k

Would love to pick up any of them (in particular an MR2). Decent ones though seem to be few and far between.

That said if anyone comes across a cheapy in good mechanical order (body can get damned considering what I am about to do with it) feel free to PM me. 

[benm]

With a budget of $10k, by the time you take out basic suspension + brake mods and a set of semi slicks you would be hard pushed to have $7k left. If you need cheap parts, upgrades, labour etc then you will have to buy an Aussie delivered car, not a jap import. You can't just run to your nearest wreckers for a new panel or other parts, everything on a jap import is either a special order through nissan or hunting it down on forums.

I think either an MX5 or mid 90's v8 Commodore would be most ideal for that budget. Strip it out completely, put a halfcage a new radiatior, upgrade the front brakes and enjoy yourself on the track.

[R33_Dude]

I have really good contacts for japanese parts. Labour, well I can do just about anything myself and the stuff that I can't? Well, my family includes a mechanical engineer who builds hot rods in his spare time.

In terms of upgrades, roll cage, brakes and semi slicks I can get these cheaply either through work, family contacts or in some cases fab it up myself.

It took me until just the other day to realise I was in a position to do this. Trust me I have thought the costs through and this is just a base startup budget. I know for a fact I willl end up throwing thousands (if not tens of thousands) at the car in the end.

I just want to get set up and out there, if any other things crop up along the way I'll pay for them.

[evil_weevil]

mid 90's v8 Commodore would be most ideal for that budget. Strip it out completely, put a halfcage a new radiatior, upgrade the front brakes and enjoy yourself on the track.

I have been thinking about this option for a while, but also the v6's as there are plenty of commodore cup cars out there for sale!

But time wise around tracks, unsure of what these v6's commo cup cars do

[BOZ22N]

I have been thinking about this option for a while, but also the v6's as there are plenty of commodore cup cars out there for sale!

But time wise around tracks, unsure of what these v6's commo cup cars do

LOL just get a boat and be done with it. Good gear box, good strong torque ranged engine what more could you want.

[BOZ22N]

No offense Chubbs

[evil_weevil]

I already have a boat!

[racegtst]

why not this one as an example

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/19...be-t253424.html

already has R32 GTR brakes, more than enough power for fun etc.

I am doing the same here in WA. I just picked up a registered R33 sub $10k and will take my time to get all the best bits. I bought in Dec and already had a track day at barbagallo raceway. Was one of the slowest cars on the day but was great fun, even the 2 spin outs.

Project Mu brake pads $200

brake fluid change $100

Oil Change $80

Fire extinguisher $28

away we went, the first time i did this in a R33 was back in 2004 and it was my daily driver, bilstein shocks and king springs with a marginal reduction in ride height a slight boost upgrade and it was weapon. It won it's class in the speed event series over here that year. Over 4,000cc road reg. so it kicked all the V8's back then. Now the V8's all run superchargers on 6.2 litres to beat the skylines.

Cage wise you can put in a half cage and change the rego of the car to a 2 seater. A full cage in WA is legal as long as the front half is removeable.

if it is just for fun, get the car do some maintenance and work up to all the good bits.

change 1 thing at a time and learn the car and have fun.

[GTR-32U]

mate plenty of options....but with the cost factor

I still think overall an early VB-VL Commodore would be the go

Heck if you dont want to do an LS1 conversion, there are other options of course.

It aint hard or expensive to drop a VN V6 or maybe an RB20 or RB25 into it.

VT twin piston calipers up front are pretty cheap these days, and if you can gut the car to -1100kgs it will pull up consistently hard with the right pads and fluid.

Search around for an SV5000 Diff if you can find one as they had the ventilated rear rotors ( and a bit Shorter too - Bigger rims at the back)

Parts would be quite accessible for you as most are locally fitted.

( I ran the VT calipers and SV 5000 rear end in my old VN- excellent upgrade for FK all $ )...

Soemthing for you to consider at least

[kingscorp]

I have built 2 race cars and owned a fer others. I am talking race cars not track day or time attack cars.

2 of them were road registered (Class B). Class B is designed for rally cars, however it is designed of any race car thar needs to be driven on the road for purpose of transport to and from events. The offical wording is:

This vehicle is to be used for transportation to and from events, place of display or mechanical repair.

My last race car had a full cage, side pipes, screamer pipes and no speedo, a full circuit car that I drove to the track and mechanical repair, this car blew flames out the side on overun whilst driving on the road!.

I strongly suggest you buy a car that someone else has built and developed, becasue most of the money in building as race car is spent developing it to be fast. There is no such thing as a cheap race car, so dont fool yourself.

If you do decide to buy a car, buy one that has been CAMS Log booked for popular category or has been built to the rules of a popular category, that way you are guarenteed that the car will always be worth good money. There is nothing worse than owning a car that can not be raced as the category it has been built for no longer exisits and therfore it is worthless!

One of the most popular categories in Australia in Improved Production (CAMS know it as 3J) Have a look under MY105 for Improved Production 3J and see what is available. Remember vehicle weight, suspension, brakes, gearbox, cage, seat, log book are every but as imporatnt ads the motor if not more, so dont get carried away with turbo size or HP.

If you do decide to build your own, here is an idea of what I just spent building my s14a Improved Production Car:

Cage $6000

Brakes $6000

Suspension $6500

Brake Pads $1000

Engine $8000

Turbo, gate and Manifolds $4000

Rad and Intercooler $2000

Rims $2000

Tyres $2000

ECU $2000

Diff $1000

Gearbox (RB25) and adapter plate $2000 (need PPG dog box to win $12000)

Clutch $1500

Paint $2000

Seat $1000

Harnesess $600

Helmet $1000

Suit etc $1000

Welding Fabriacting etc $2000

Braided hoses fittings $1000

Fuel pumps, Surge tanks $1000

CAMS Licence, Club fees $750

Entry fees $1800

Fuel $Heaps

And the cost of the car $15000 (minus what ever you sell the parts that you removed for the car)

I would have missed heaps of things, this list is just what I can think of whilst watching TV.

Its a modest car, but by no means the best, you could easily tripple the total if you wanted the best gear! Now the expensive bit will be making it go fast by developing it.

So you can see why I suggest buying a car already completed.

Here are a few

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=10241

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=10861

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=10763 (I have seen this car, very very fast)

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=10679

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=10557 (looks very good)

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=10482

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=11179

Here is the Improved Production Forum (IPRA), there are cars for sales and so on http://www.techmasters.com.au/forum/ or do a search for IPRA and your state, e.g. WA is IPRAWA or http://www.iprawa.com

Send me a message if you need any help!

Ashly

Edited January 23, 2009 by kingscorp

[BOZ22N]

Hey Ashly,

Could you run a R33 GTST or does it have to be australian delivered? Do all turbo cars have to run a restrictor?

Cheers,

Ryan

[evil_weevil]

Great post Ashly, certainly puts alot of thought into race cars with budgets!!

While my skyline is a road car, which has been modified to have fun at supersprints, my next car will be a track car and already built! I like that VH on my105! looks tidy as!

[BOZ22N]

Just found this 3J cams manual

So it sounds like you can run a R33 GTST but,

Have to run a 36mm restrictor no more than 50mm up stream from turbo

And cause 2500cc x 1.70 = 4250cc does that mean our minimum weight it 1405kg???

and we can run 9" rims all round?

Do you have to run std upper and lower control arms with the std elastomeric bushes? so no nolethan?

Cheers,

Ryan

[S13Deviat]

Easy S13.... cheapest easiest option

That is all....

kthxbai

[kingscorp]

Just found this 3J cams manual

So it sounds like you can run a R33 GTST but,

Have to run a 36mm restrictor no more than 50mm up stream from turbo

And cause 2500cc x 1.70 = 4250cc does that mean our minimum weight it 1405kg???

and we can run 9" rims all round?

Do you have to run std upper and lower control arms with the std elastomeric bushes? so no nolethan?

Cheers,

Ryan

Im glad my post helped some people

Yes you can run a R33.

Yes you will have to have the 36mm restrictor

The rules for 3J change depending on if your car is clasified as a Early Model or Late Model. Early Model is pre 1986 and Late Model is after 1986. Weight limits only apply to late model if you have changed your engine or block or head to another Nissan engine. For example if put a RB30 with RB26 head in your r33 GTST you would have to run a weight limit. Different matter for early model, you can use any engine from the car manufacturer with out any weight limits, example, you can put a sr20 into a Datsun 120Y and have no weight limit. However Early Model have rim/aero restrictions and have to deal with old suspension design.

As you would run a RB25 there is no weight limit and you can run on 9" rims on the control Yokohama A048 tyres.

Standard arms must remain, including caster rods etc. Nolothane can be used, including offset bushes to increase caster and so on. You can relocate suspension mounting points within a certain radius of the original mounts. There are no restrictions on Brakes , Struts, Gear Boxes (Must be H Pattern and same amount of gears as origial car), Diffs, Shafts, it is essentialy Production based racing, just improved.

Not sure how competitve a R33 GTST would be! They are heavy and will struggle to move all that weight when HP/revs are restricted due to the Turbo Restrictor. R32 GTR would be a different story as you have 2 x 27mm restrictors (might be 22mm cant remember), a lighter car and intelligent 4wd system. The big issue with the restrictor is not HP, you will make a genuine 300 rwhp and with massive torque! The problem is the lack of RPM available, a 2.5ltr RB engine would not rev past 6000rpm, maximum power would be about 5000 rpm. The bigger the engine the more air it has to suck thru the restrictor at higher rpm, the smaller the engine the less air it has to suck thou so therfore you can rev more, no more HP, the same 300rwhp, but higher in the rev range.

My SR20 DET with the 36mm restrictor makes 307 rwhp at 20 psi boost and revs to 7200 rpm, however max power is at 6900rpm. It makes big torque that pushes you hard in the seat. Torque wins races, not HP!

One of my older race cars was a Mitsubishi Scorpion with a 4G63 EVO engine in it. It was stroked to 2.3 litres and made 300 rwhp, It was fast around a track. It took it to the drags to see what she would do. A very bad launch (circuit cars dont get off the line well) 2.3 sixty foot time and it ran a 12.8 at 114 mph and that was with the 36mm restrictor! So they ar not slow with the restrictor, you just cant rev them.

I think a Silvia would be a good Improved Production car, they are light, mine is about 1120 kgs, great suspension, great aero, Big 9" rims, good engine and heaps of bolt on performance parts available.

I believe you are better off buying a Improved Production car already built with a good racing history. Early RX7's are still the pick of the bunch, very very light, lots of HP with unlimited revs (N/A no restrictors), good aero, heaps of parts availabe as they are very popular race cars, very cheap to run and rebuild.

Do a YouTube search for Improved Production racing or IPRA and have a look at some of the racing

The racing is fast and they are a good bunch of blokes, you all have a beer at the end of race day!

Ashly

[Duncan]

It appears for what i want to do its not suitable

since i only wish to drive to and from events in my car (most events are just private track days) and not run under cams etc. i dont think its possible for me to have this type of rego for this use.

might have to just register the car and pray for the best.. and maybe get a trailer eventually..

Not at all Andrew - it allows you to drive to CAMS events, workshops and "practice". Its perfect and cheap $81pa including greenslip. This is what I drive my car under.

Re IRPA, it is the best category as far as national reach goes and it allows a decent amount of freedom. The big "but" is, because maximum power is restricted due to the intake restrictor you need the lightest car if you want to win - and that means series 1-3 rx7.

So if you just want to have fun its a good category. but don't go racing for overall wins unless you have the right car and a big budget.

[kingscorp]

Great post Ashly, certainly puts alot of thought into race cars with budgets!!

While my skyline is a road car, which has been modified to have fun at supersprints, my next car will be a track car and already built! I like that VH on my105! looks tidy as!

Buy on already built for sure, unless you have a big budget to build the car you really want.

That Commodore looks very good, however it only has a Alloy cage! This will reduce the value substantually. You can no linger build a race car with Alloy Cage, CAMS have banned them. Have you ever seen a alloy caged race car after a big crash !

If not, check out page 7 and 8 of this post on the IPRA forums

http://www.techmasters.com.au/forum/viewto...ge&start=90

Ash

[evil_weevil]

Oh I see!

alloy cage - check - negatory!

Ash - have you seen much with the commodore cup cars or the like?

As in they go pretty well? lap some good times?

Ive really got to stop looking at my105....my fiance's going to kill me soon

[badhairdave]

I'd have to agree with buying something that is as close to complete as possible.

Just for reference; my NA silvia cost me 6250 and was already run on the track regularly. I've only spent another 1750 on it including new semis, rewiring, light weight boot lid and a cheap radiator. But i've swapped in a heap of stuff of the skyline (diff, seat, steering wheel, gauges, wheels, brakes) which at cost prices was around 4k worth.

And i am getting the turbo engine sorted atm which already owes around 3k with the repair of the turbo and new housing, purchase of the engine, manifold, gate and assorted misc bits and pieces.

And i still have to buy cams and injectors for the new engine

And re bush the suspension

And get some new front springs and shocks and reco the rears

And, once the new engine goes in, i reckon i'll be up for a new clutch and box

And i haven't even bought a trailer yet....