Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[l0WRB]

yep it would be completey legal stao plumbed in

rolls : i run 50mm external gate setup from my stock manifold on a gt3582r .82 turbine garrett turbo

[Harey]

yep it would be completey legal stao plumbed in

Hmmm not sure about that in Vic??

[Rolls]

Also if I run external gate and plumb it back, then wouldn't this be considered as road legal "internal" gate?

How effective is an external gate plumbed up to the internal gate location?

It wouldn't be legal as it would be seen as a form of boost control modification.

[l0WRB]

im talkin bout QLD.. lol i dnt care about you vic ppl haha.

Edited October 13, 2010 by l0WRB

[hypergear]

How effective is an external gate plumbed up to the internal gate location?

It wouldn't be legal as it would be seen as a form of boost control modification.

I'll be interested to test it only if its rated road legal. I received a $760 fin from EPA (01/01/09 first day of 09 lol) in Vic for having an externally bleeded gate. I will be more interested in developing a street legal sort of setup.

I'll be considering to do those sort of setups if plumb back is legal.

and plumb screamer back in to the front pipe.

[Harey]

im talkin bout QLD.. lol i dnt care about you vic ppl haha.

hahaha I thought everything was legal in QLD, quick $50 mod plate and your done

[zebra]

Where did i say 1000rpm better response? I didn't.

I said quite clearly - power band. Useable RPM range.

All your dyno sheets tend to end @ 7,000rpm.

Most results you've shown tend to show a drop that usually starts around 6500rpm - a power band of 2500rpm (4000-6500).

If the sheet goes to 7500 (i think i saw one?), the drop was quite big (30-40rwkw IIRC).

To date you've not really answered when questioned about it in 2-3 threads now, and I'm not the only one that keeps asking.

I've not seen a 3071/3076 drop off that harsh ever.

i have to agree, my old high flow which is the same one that held 20psi all the way to 7200 also did not drop off, just flattened out at 6500 and held the same power to 7200.

And Stao, blaming every dyno curve that drops off on wheel spin is getting a little old.

Strap the car down better, but if its not wheel spinning at peak torque i doubt it will wheel spin once the torque drops off at high rpm.

[GTScotT]

How effective is an external gate plumbed up to the internal gate location?

It wouldn't be legal as it would be seen as a form of boost control modification.

2 things, your first comment is void - nobody plumbs it back to the factory gate position. The idea is they plumb it into the front pipe later down the exhaust.

2nd point, it is legal from an emissions perspective however ANY modification in just about ANY state is considered illegal.

You highflow, is as illegal as it gets.

[bozodos]

it isn't blatantly obvious to anyone who sticks their head into the engine bay though...

One other thing popped into mind, wouldn't say a Garrett core inside stock housings make the compressor flow all kinds of f**ked up?

[zebra]

it isn't blatantly obvious to anyone who sticks their head into the engine bay though...

One other thing popped into mind, wouldn't say a Garrett core inside stock housings make the compressor flow all kinds of f**ked up?

Yep, hence the 1500rpm power band and massive drop off after 5500rpm

Its due to the massive wheels inside small housings, same goes with the ct12 highflows that many companies do, all that achieves is a shit load of lag and maybe a 15rwkw gain overall for the soarer guys, because the housings just cannot flow enough air, so you stick a shit load of boost through them and all it does is superheat the intake air.

[hypergear]

i have to agree, my old high flow which is the same one that held 20psi all the way to 7200 also did not drop off, just flattened out at 6500 and held the same power to 7200.

And Stao, blaming every dyno curve that drops off on wheel spin is getting a little old.

Strap the car down better, but if its not wheel spinning at peak torque i doubt it will wheel spin once the torque drops off at high rpm.

But on the same time I don't think your high flow made that much power either. Keep in mind this is 305rwkws final result. It doesn't seems to affect power under 260rwkws. Can you scan a copy of your sheet?

Plus I've never blamed wheel spin for drop off. Its blamed for incorrect RPM reading. So at moment I'm doing all my runs on a hub dyno.

I think I can get away from the drop with internal gate on high powered applications. Stay tuned.

[Rolls]

Strap the car down better, but if its not wheel spinning at peak torque i doubt it will wheel spin once the torque drops off at high rpm.

It will wheel-spin at peak power not peak torque, sure the torque drops off but the overall power keeps climbing due tot he increase in rpm.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Rolls

[zebra]

Not in my experience, torque is what turns the axles/accelerates the car, hp/kw is just torque x rpm

Eg, I have driven quite a few big power NA big block bent eights, on the road they all broke into wheel spin at around the peak torque rpm, but hold at high rpm in the same gear and plant it they dont.

[hypergear]

Just looking back to this high flow:

The final tune peeked 305rwkws at 6500RPMs and droped 15kws at 7000RPMs which still made it 290rwkws at rev limiter. I think its good enough as far as high flow goes thou.

But I consult with Tuners and engineers to see if this can be straightened by modifying few things.

Also when wheel spins. you lose peak power, torque and get incorrect reading. Note 2x power curves of the ATR43G3-P1 test runs. with and without people in the boot. That shown lots wheel spinning, and less wheel spinning.

[Harey]

Not in my experience, torque is what turns the axles/accelerates the car, hp/kw is just torque x rpm

Eg, I have driven quite a few big power NA big block bent eights, on the road they all broke into wheel spin at around the peak torque rpm, but hold at high rpm in the same gear and plant it they dont.

This is my experience as well with various different high powered cars.

[zebra]

So that one holds to 7000rpm, but power comes on like a switch, it doubles its power in the space of 200-300rpm.

If you can fatten up the mid range and bring it on boost smoother it would be a winner.

[Lonewolf1983]

Any figures or graphs of said turbo's on a 20det? (i know most of your work is based around the 25's).

And pricing?

Thanks!

I think I chose the wrong day to ask a question! LOL

[Rolls]

Not in my experience, torque is what turns the axles/accelerates the car, hp/kw is just torque x rpm

Not it isn't, power is. Even though there is less torque there is more work being done (more power) so even though the actual force per cylinder explosion is lower there are more explosions going on. If that were the case everyone would make their cars massively under-square with huge strokes and tiny bores, sure it makes loads more torque but it makes less power and is hence slower.

Eg, I have driven quite a few big power NA big block bent eights, on the road they all broke into wheel spin at around the peak torque rpm, but hold at high rpm in the same gear and plant it they dont.

That is all due to the rate that power increases, eg turbo cars break into wheel spin when the turbo kicks in due to the massive slope in power, it has nothing to do with the amount of torque though. Basically the wheels break traction then they increase in rpm, that increase brings about more power and makes them spin even more, where as at the higher rpm the power level is flat or decreasing, this means when they break traction the revs increase and hence it is making less power, this means the power drops below what is required to spin the wheels and it hooks up again. Nothing to do with torque level and everything to do with the slope of the power curve.

Really good article here on why this is the case.

http://autospeed.com.au/cms/title_Power-ve...48/article.html

Edited October 13, 2010 by Rolls

[Harey]

That is all due to the rate that power increases, eg turbo cars break into wheel spin when the turbo kicks in due to the massive slope in power, it has nothing to do with the amount of torque though. Basically the wheels break traction then they increase in rpm, that increase brings about more power and makes them spin even more, where as at the higher rpm the power level is flat or decreasing, this means when they break traction the revs increase and hence it is making less power, this means the power drops below what is required to spin the wheels and it hooks up again. Nothing to do with torque level and everything to do with the slope of the power curve.

Really good article here on why this is the case.

http://autospeed.com.au/cms/title_Power-ve...48/article.html

Maybe its just a coincidence that the greatest slope in power is normally around the peak torque.

[kwickr33]

Stao I wouldn't give a piss about those haters. There is noting wrong for putting effort on building cheaper and more convenient setups.

One thing I must point out thou. Have a look at your others sheets. It looks like this sharp tip off is only with your car. Heat from or boost drop formed power drop would round off a lot more smoother "blow" while your is just a sharp Tip. Looks like a rev limiter kicked in early or a miss fire. Get Status to checked it out before you tune.

Note there is no drop off at Harey's reading, whom is running your old turbo.

Edited October 13, 2010 by kwickr33