Abs On The Track.

[Rav]

Hey Guys and Girls,

This might be a very dum question but how importing is ABS break system on a Track.

Is it an advantage? I know how the ABS breaks work, but I can’t see how it can make much of a advantage on a track.

Thanks guys for your help.

[PRO_32]

I think an intelligent 4 channel abs system is quite good especially on the track, I think most on here would agree,

Flat spotting tyres is never a good thing. However I wasn't particularly impressed with the r32's abs system slow

And not all that clever. So I removed mine to shed some weight out of the front.

[Rav]

But on the Track would you press it so hard that the ABS would kick in. Just asking Because My GTR, The ABS has been removed. (Because onces in its life it had two big high mounted Turbos on it).

Iam going to do track days and just dont no if it worth putting a ABS system back on it.

[dat2kman]

After seeing pete Walsh from AMEC try another diff in his tt 300zx , on slicks, that did not have the sensor, and with his ABS disconnected, he was having all sorts of strife especially on the downhill into gumtree at Morgan park. The correct diff went back in straight away and no massive wheel lock ups.

It just went to show how modern cars rely so much on this sort of technology, here i am in a 30+ year old car, doing almost same lap times, and with no modern help like abs, it does make an average peddler look good, but when it is done by an OK driver in an old car, right on the limit of lockup into a corner, it is quite an eye-opener.

[FineLine]

On the track ABS is great. Its off the track where they become a problem.

[Snowman]

Yeah I think its a real good thing personally! I remember the electronics on mine failed at Phillip Island once and this was the result.

Having said that I deactivate my ABS for things like motokhana's / skidpans where I think it is a hinderence but on the track it's a god send.

[Russman]

Ouch snowy. That would hurt the wallet! Although looks like you'd used the best of em anyway.

[Duncan]

We really the issue is safety. As Noel said, if you leave the track and ABS is connected, the ABS will stop the tyres locking on grass/gravel/kitty litter. Unfortunatetly the only way to get decent braking on a loose surface like them is to lock the wheels. So if you are in a bad situation and leave the track ABS can make it much worse...in fact there was a death in a race at phillip island that may not have occurred if ABS was disconnected.

Since then CAMS has made it legal to disconnect ABS if you want to in any category. And in Europe tracks are moving to tarmac run offs instead of gravel so ABS cars can still stop.

On the other hand, modern, fast acting ABS is a pretty good thing on the track. Like a lot of modern electrics it can make an average driver look pretty good under brakes. You still should brake until before it cuts in for stability, but if you get it wrong braking individual wheels can be really useful like at turn 2 at Oran Park.

[Merli]

The question is, how hard is it to upgrade the antiquated ABS system in an old car like the R32 to a faster, more intelligent system?

[Duncan]

Ahh well.....we had a good look into this years ago and gave up. There are a lot of differences.

ABS main unit (of course) 4 channel

ABS computer is in the attessa unit so you have to change that too

ATTESSA pumps are different

Wiring is different.

In the end it would be a total rewire so we gave up.

[sav man]

I think a R32 -> R33 ABS upgrade would be worth it. My R32 with big brakes locks the wheels, R32 just seems to be to slow to pick up diferences in wheel speed. But I think the R33 works reay well (granted it's only 3 channel), but where the R32 will lock up/have big wheel speed diferences, the R33 will pulse for like 1/2 a sec to stop this. I'm not sure if that makes sence, but i know what i mean

I'm wonding if R32 -> R33 ATTESSA/ABS will be any cheaper/easier than R32 -> R34?

[Rav]

Thanks guys for the info.

I guess i have to find a ABS system now. I just hope there not to dear to Buy. Thinking about upgranding my breaks soon just dont know what to, Need do some reserch.

What you guys recomened iam not looking for a Massive break like a AP Racing.

car for the street and maybe 5 track days a year.

[Duncan]

Ben we were looking at 33 but I was sure it was 4 channel, maybe vspec is different? The R32 thing is horribly slow but that is good in a lot of ways, it will never be too obtrusive lol

Michael if the only thing you are missing is the ABS unit they are pretty common, in fact we have 1 or 2 around. But you probably need more like the brake lines as well. You are probably better to just go without unless you are ready for the stuffing around to get it all back in.

Best brakes for street and light track use are standard (maybe new lines and discs, definately with good quality fluid). If you want more than that you would be mad to go past the G4/D2 8 piston calipers and discs.

[G_T_R]

Definitely think the ABS sytem in the 32 is quite nice in the fact that it is a bit slower than the modern vehicle and in that sense unobtrusive. While the modern ABS systems are very quick and safe on the street, especially in combination with the raft of other vehicle stability systems that are incorporated, they are a bit annoying especially when used on track vehicles that have been upgraded with better pads. Brakes with higher initial bite really require quite a lot of pedal modulation to avoid ABS intrusion.........not really a problem with the R32.

[NISMO]

^^ Agreed

My V35, which had Brembo's and upgraded pads, would be engaging ABS at the slightest touch on nearly every corner at Wakie. That being said it did give me extra confidence to brake at the last second.

But now you all have me worried cause my N1 has no ABS :-)

[Swiper the Fox]

Ben we were looking at 33 but I was sure it was 4 channel, maybe vspec is different? The R32 thing is horribly slow but that is good in a lot of ways, it will never be too obtrusive lol

Michael if the only thing you are missing is the ABS unit they are pretty common, in fact we have 1 or 2 around. But you probably need more like the brake lines as well. You are probably better to just go without unless you are ready for the stuffing around to get it all back in.

Best brakes for street and light track use are standard (maybe new lines and discs, definately with good quality fluid). If you want more than that you would be mad to go past the G4/D2 8 piston calipers and discs.

the big difference is the R32 system runs at 5Hz...the R33 system is 50Hz and the R34 is 100Hz.

this is why the R32 system is a snail...it looks at the wheel speed signal only 5 times a second! The R33 system is 10 times faster to react and the R34 system 20 times faster.

Edited April 5, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[Kinks]

We really the issue is safety. As Noel said, if you leave the track and ABS is connected, the ABS will stop the tyres locking on grass/gravel/kitty litter. Unfortunatetly the only way to get decent braking on a loose surface like them is to lock the wheels. So if you are in a bad situation and leave the track ABS can make it much worse...

word.

[Rav]

Ben we were looking at 33 but I was sure it was 4 channel, maybe vspec is different? The R32 thing is horribly slow but that is good in a lot of ways, it will never be too obtrusive lol

Michael if the only thing you are missing is the ABS unit they are pretty common, in fact we have 1 or 2 around. But you probably need more like the brake lines as well. You are probably better to just go without unless you are ready for the stuffing around to get it all back in.

Best brakes for street and light track use are standard (maybe new lines and discs, definately with good quality fluid). If you want more than that you would be mad to go past the G4/D2 8 piston calipers and discs.

I all ready have slotted rear rotors and cross drilled front rotors, Grex Trust pads. Iam not going to do track days at a competive level. So i guess i might just keep what i have for now.

Cheers, Micahel.

[Jetwreck]

Have driven the exact same R32GTR both with and without ABS my preference is no ABS...sure I could go deeper on some corners with the ABS but the balance/mid corner speed of the car was shot.....maybe I'm a bit old school but I don't like computor stuff trying to help me.

P.S. Would give my left nut for traction control in the wet sometimes though...lol!!!

Edited April 5, 2009 by Jetwreck

[some_cs_student]

You should probably repeat the above test in an R33 or R34 GTR, the ABS is much faster in them as per the above posts