Spool Rb34

[R.I.P.S NZ]

Hang on... does RIPS actually do a 95mm stroker 3.4??? remember this girdle was created to accomodate said stroker, could just be lucky coincidence that it LOOKS like Robs...

Spools 3.4 isn't a 3.4 anyway (my RB33 was well over 3300cc), spools girdle wasn't "created" to accomodate said stroker and the billet mains caps and block brace don't even come into play with a 95mm stroke so there's no accomodation required at all in those areas.

The caps look so idendticle I wouldn't be surprised at all if you layed one set over the other that they wern't exactly the same.

IMO Its just BS that someone can come along and promote this "new product" and claim they will be "very competitivley priced" etc etc and then show an exact copy of something I have spent alot of time and money developing, its just total disrespect and greed.

Edited May 12, 2010 by R.I.P.S NZ

[zebra]

The caps look so idendticle I wouldn't be surprised at all if you layed one set over the other that they wern't exactly the same.

They look identicle because they have to fit in the block...I dont think much could be done differently.

[R.I.P.S NZ]

They look identicle because they have to fit in the block...I dont think much could be done differently.

I think anyone with 1/2 a brain can see whats happened here, no-one with a straight face and clear concience could tell me that spool thought of and came up with that design knowing nothing about mine, IMO, there is no question they've seen mine, thought that it was the best solution seen so far and copied it either by having some to copy or by drawing them up based on pictures they have seen of my kit.

Its real sad when people like me WANT to spend time and money developing and actually testing new products to then sell to my customers, then things like this happen and I think f&*k it, I'll just keep the ideas to my self for my own engines.

I'm still keen to hear what Spool have to say about it and see if he denies copying it or admits it and doesn't care.

Rob

[Marlin]

I feel and know your pain RIPS, but many of us deal with this kind of thing day to day. I know I do!

The only way to beat copiers (if indeed this is the case) is to keep one or two steps ahead of them.

Keep developing and improving your product, and leave them in your wake feeding off the scraps.

[dazmo]

Is the RIPS design patented?. If so then there could be a case for SPOOL to answer if not is just a case of bad luck. Anyone and everyone can debate the morals of copying a said design but at the end of the day this is just the harsh realities of the world we live in. I would just suggest that the there are not a multitude of ways to design one of these girdle set ups so would suggest that any girdle produced will look very close to most other designs. That being said I am not saying it is the right thing to do or that you dont have the right to be upset but unless your design is patented you have absoloutly no leg to stand on threatening legal action.

I would think that you would be better off highlighting the fact that yours is an original design that has been in production for x amount of years with roughly x number being produced and running without any drama, is machined in NZ rather than china and try to emphasize that yours is a premium product. Just that fact that SPOOLS (i assume) are machined in china will put a lot of people off as there will always be a segment of the market that will not buy or use chinese produced parts regardless of cost or claimed quality.

[R.I.P.S NZ]

Is the RIPS design patented?. If so then there could be a case for SPOOL to answer if not is just a case of bad luck. Anyone and everyone can debate the morals of copying a said design but at the end of the day this is just the harsh realities of the world we live in. I would just suggest that the there are not a multitude of ways to design one of these girdle set ups so would suggest that any girdle produced will look very close to most other designs. That being said I am not saying it is the right thing to do or that you dont have the right to be upset but unless your design is patented you have absoloutly no leg to stand on threatening legal action.

I would think that you would be better off highlighting the fact that yours is an original design that has been in production for x amount of years with roughly x number being produced and running without any drama, is machined in NZ rather than china and try to emphasize that yours is a premium product. Just that fact that SPOOLS (i assume) are machined in china will put a lot of people off as there will always be a segment of the market that will not buy or use chinese produced parts regardless of cost or claimed quality.

I hear what you are saying, lets just see what Spool has to say.

[zebra]

So after 5 or so people have asked if it is pateneted and there has been no answer im guessing it isnt.

[PM-R33]

Well holy shit this thread got very interesting over the last 24 hours!

[Marko R1]

regardless of other peoples perspectives & how this is all viewed...its a low blow

[tridentt150v]

And its a shame really because nobody is going to get rich selling RB parts, they haven't been made for over 5-6 years now and are eventually a dead end. And what are we talking about, a small customer base spread over a wide demographic area, I mean how many RB34 kits will be sold overall? The market is not a force to be reckoned with exactly.

The only thing that keeps RIPS and Spool going is enthusiasm [some profit for effort, but not a good return based on other products]. They could make heaps more selling bling on ebay.

And before anyone responds - I'm not talking about BOV's and FMIC's here, one product only.

[DAN00H]

regardless of other peoples perspectives & how this is all viewed...its a low blow

how - its all business and as mentioned earlier, no-one has a patent on the design. would you prefer just one telco (i.e. telstra) and put up with monopolised prices? no, that is what competition is all about. someone recognises a need, develops a product and introduces to market. eventually others are going to do the same, or see something existing and also give it a go.

[[200]]

A little off topic but I for one would like to commend Brad for making more affordable parts for not only the rb30 but a lot of other engines. I am sure he's shelled out a lot of cash to do what he's doing as I for one know that this doesn't come cheap - even if its made in China. Look at his rods for example, everyone knows of the Spool brand both here and overseas, he's sold a f**k load and I hope he continues to do so.

Putting all morals aside, I think the majority of people would be thankful that there are people like Brad out there that continue to fabricate new parts for the rb30 engine. I think the added competition will make these parts more affordable for people that want to go fast on a budget.

I personally do not see this any different to the people that fabricate the crank collars and sump adapters. I remember reading a thread where proengines asked if leeroy_25 was the one that asked him for the CAD drawing for the collars. That aside, now he's making the damn things (sump adapters) and I know of others that have copied the exact design from Greg.

If you're worried about someone copying your work then do something about it to protect it in the first place.

[Marko R1]

how - its all business and as mentioned earlier, no-one has a patent on the design. would you prefer just one telco (i.e. telstra) and put up with monopolised prices? no, that is what competition is all about. someone recognises a need, develops a product and introduces to market. eventually others are going to do the same, or see something existing and also give it a go.

competition is healthy & without it there would be no challenge.

to put this into context:

how would u feel if u paid good money for architectural designed plans (as architects are very expensive) for that 'point of difference' then u notice another house up the road with same facade? dont tell me that would put a smile on your face?

when i was growing up, 1 of my best friends used to idolise everything i would wear & own, same skateboards etc - all i wanted to do was crack him in the head! the same happened again when i started riding motorbikes...it got under my skin big time.

[Beer Baron]

yeah there are definitely some outright copies of greg's sump adapter getting around as it was by far the best of the locally available product... I know greg certainly didn't copy anyone elses for his design and then there are other tricks like material selection, sizing and spec of fasteners etc. He takes it in stride though as I think he knows that people who bother to research know that his product stands up on quality and price to other imitations.

[TiTAN]

A little off topic but I for one would like to commend Brad for making more affordable parts for not only the rb30 but a lot of other engines. I am sure he's shelled out a lot of cash to do what he's doing as I for one know that this doesn't come cheap - even if its made in China. Look at his rods for example, everyone knows of the Spool brand both here and overseas, he's sold a f**k load and I hope he continues to do so.

Putting all morals aside, I think the majority of people would be thankful that there are people like Brad out there that continue to fabricate new parts for the rb30 engine. I think the added competition will make these parts more affordable for people that want to go fast on a budget.

I personally do not see this any different to the people that fabricate the crank collars and sump adapters. I remember reading a thread where proengines asked if leeroy_25 was the one that asked him for the CAD drawing for the collars. That aside, now he's making the damn things (sump adapters) and I know of others that have copied the exact design from Greg.

If you're worried about someone copying your work then do something about it to protect it in the first place.

i believe gregs original design for the sump adaptors was a combo effort by him and Fitzpatrick speed works.

[zebra]

A little off topic but I for one would like to commend Brad for making more affordable parts for not only the rb30 but a lot of other engines.

I agree 100% these engines are more than 20 years old.

But we are still paying top dollar for parts like the engines came out a week ago.

Look at the Yank and Aussie V8 market. complete stroker kits, including 8 forged pistons and rods and cast crank are availiable for less than the cost of a Jap brand set of pistons which is only a set of 6, while they have been around a lot longer....its still cost the same to make 1 piston for a RB30 as it does a cleveland v8...and the bent 8 piston has more meterial used, so it may even be cheaper to make Jap slugs.

[iseekool]

And its a shame really because nobody is going to get rich selling RB parts, they haven't been made for over 5-6 years now and are eventually a dead end. And what are we talking about, a small customer base spread over a wide demographic area, I mean how many RB34 kits will be sold overall? The market is not a force to be reckoned with exactly.

The only thing that keeps RIPS and Spool going is enthusiasm [some profit for effort, but not a good return based on other products]. They could make heaps more selling bling on ebay.

And before anyone responds - I'm not talking about BOV's and FMIC's here, one product only.

Off topic - but on that note - (not trying to talk down on China or any cheap labour country) - I'm surprised there are no Chinese (or any other cheaper) copies of the whole RB engine design.

Hell... I'm surprised why the whole "skyline/gt-r" has not yet been copied for the Chinese domestic market, since the Skyline platform has been proven to perform well and be reasonably safe - may not be perfect - but there is no R&D costs to factor in - therefore the cars can be produced cheap.

I've read articles in the past (mid 90s) where Holden has sold its old tooling to South Korea as well as the design for the VB-VL Commodore for really cheap.

[NXTIME]

The thing is, how many different ways are there of setting up the girdles and caps? They will more than likely all look very similar simply due to the block and crank specs.

Also, have a look at aftermerket RB26 single t/b inlet manifold designs...most of them look very similar in design with slight differences, however, the main shape is quite common amongst almost all. It is even widely accepted and admitted that certain brands are direct copies of the original Japanese designs.

In the end, the consumers will make the choice and the better quality and more reputable products will continue to sell.

[Spoolup]

Wholly crap - look what happens when you leave the computer for 24 hrs.

Im sorry I have pissed you off Rob as I totally respect what you guys do and have done - and I dont even know you or have never even spoken to you.

Firstly some facts for all readers:

This kit is made here in Brisbane Australia - not China, so it will not be as competively priced as my stroker cranks and rods, which is what I was referring too originally.

I never designed, manufactured or did the R&D on this kit.

A couple smart guys I know with a lot of expensive machinary made one of these kits for their own race car. In the process of dealing with them ( as they buy my rods and pistons ) we decided that they would manufacture them and I would market them. If it wasnt me who took up this offer then it would have been someone else.

I originally decided to use one of these kits for my trial engine as the counterweights on my 95 mm trial crank foul on the OEM girdle when it is torqued down ( ie the diam of the crank was made a couple mm too big ) So the billet caps and girdle solved that problem for me.

They did not buy a RIPS kit and copy it, they engineered it themselves.

This idea has been around for along time - in various designs. Regardless of who was the first to manufacture and market it.

The kit is slightly different ( ie if you were to overlay them they would not be exact ) as it was not copied identically from a RIPS kit, but there is only one way to make this kit - 7 caps and one girdle.

Its healthy competion Rob - as mentioned in this thread there are others out there already making similar or the same. There will be numerous similar kits available before the end of this year Id guess. Same for RB30 stroker kits.

If it was a patented registered design ( which it is not and can not be ) I would never even have considered it.

[[200]]

I recall seeing R33Racer having one made that looked very similar too.

There is even one in the build up thread, I cannot make out the name on the caps but it aint a RIPS item either...