Precision Billet Turbos

[zebra]

E85 can be had at what? half a dozen servos around the country?

Until it can be had in the middle of nowhere on the New England highway etc I wont be changing over.

and we are not talking about standard compression we are talking stanard un-opened motors.

I have broken enough low power RB25's let alone how many I wouldve broken running a mid frame turbo at 30psi.

[PJ.]

But come on PJ - you have to admit at some point that a 570hp turbo on 20psi should be making significantly more than 250rwkw.

It should be around 300rwkw given a GT3076 will do those exact numbers and is similarly rated to the Precision item.

Although when you think about it, 570hp with a .63 rear housing???

End of the day, if you have to run 24-30psi, then these turbos simply are not a good choice for your average punter on a stock motor.

A built/race motor, then of course. Get the most out of the turbos and so on.

More results needed yet either way i say!

Nismoid, like I said before, for pump fuel, a smaller turbo would be ideal. However, it does sounds to me like Justin has a restriction, there is no way the boost should be tapering off at that power and boost level. Power = flow.

A 3076 is rated to 525hp, meaning it would need less boost to get it in its spot, there's a reason why turbochargers are rated in power

I know that, but what I'm trying to say is: (and Im talking about street cars)

Say you wanted 280rwkws, would you use a GT-RS and run 2Bar of boost + WMI + Cams and head work, or would you run a GT3037 with a standard head and cams and 16psi?

Not everybody can afford a $5K head setup + built bottom end.

and E85 isnt availiable everywhere and I sure as hell wouldnt be buying 44Gal drums everytime I needed to fill up.

Sure if I could afford option 1 I would do it, but not everybody can or even wants to setup an engine to take big boost.

You said yourself that the SR20 went pop because of too much boost, but that was with the 6262 or what ever it was so it is understandable, but for those telling Justin to run 30psi is a bit silly for a stock Rb25.

For 280kW on an RB, I sure as hell wouldn't use a GT-RS, It'd be GT3071R.

You would not need a $5k head setup, not one of the cars we have tested has that, not even my own engine, you guys need to understand that 20+ psi on E85 is not big boost at all.

Standard unopened motors is exactly what I meant. I understand you find it a bit hard with what E85 is capable of, however I've been on it for 2 years, work in a performance shop that tunes it all day. I've seen what it can do, I've seen engines pulled apart after being flogged on it and for that reason and I'll never go back to 98!

Annnnyway! Got lots of fast cars to make people happy before X-mas so gotta get back to it.

Keep on smiling

Edited December 8, 2010 by PJ.

[Jpower]

20psi is on the higher end of the boost region for a Nissan running standard comp, but is by no means high boost for the turbo's that people have traditionally run such as T78's, T88's, T04Z's, GT35's, even 3076R's.

Times have changed guys, we have better turbo's, better fuel and greater tuning knowledge. If you're happy to stick with 98 and 98 only, then you probably shouldn't be using anything over a turbo rated to 450hp-500hp

Too true.

These new turbos coming out have new architecture, for lack of a better word. In essence turbochargers are air pumps, while people compare smaller older designed turbos of the 20th century, people need to understand we are in the 21st century now and that these new turbos offer much better designed internals for higher boost applications.

[R31Nismoid]

Times have indeed changed.

You can make 400-440rwkw from a set of -5s on PULP. That was a pipe dream several years ago with only a few getting there.

Anyway you look at it E85 is a boutique fuel. Its half way between PULP and outright racefuel as price/vs/economy its bad.

Ye you get more power out of it and can run more boost - but realistically for 99% of people, going to the servo ever 200-250km's or having to carry around a jerry can is a bit ridiculous

[FineLine]

I think calling e85 a boutique fuel is a bit short sighted Ash, I can now access this stuff 3 minutes from home and the list of outlets is growing.

6 weeks ago it was available in a couple of servos in the southern states, have a look at it now.

Unless you are driving your line in some pretty remote territory I reckon it will be as available as 98 ron within a year or so. Its not always easy to find either.

[XRATED]

From the outset this was just r&d for me, to see how the 5557 would stack up against a td06. The 5557 I bought was as closly matched in ar/trim/wheel sizes/hp rating/comp cover to a td06 as I could get.... I even got the plain bearing core to keep it comparatable.

I still think that PT turbo's are WELL worth the money... They're packed full of new tech and seem to produce the numbers on a variety of engine combinations.

I'm positive another 5psi would see another 25-35rwkw with the same shape boost drop. I just don't want to run anymore boost through a daily driven 100k stock 25. We raised the boost from 18psi to 20psi, got the same shape boost drop and made another 30rwkw from 3800rpm.

If your running e85 and/or have a built motor... these turbo's would be the go.

As for a restriction... I'm running a stock GTR cooler, 2.5" cooler pipe work, greddy style plenum, stock tb, 3" intake with a new greddy air filter. I have a full 3.25" hks exhaust. The exh mani is stock with a custom made adapter and wastegate between the manifold and exhaust housing.

There are areas that could be imporoved, but none that add up to anymore than a handful of kw's...

Cheers

Justin

[PJ.]

Times have indeed changed.

You can make 400-440rwkw from a set of -5s on PULP. That was a pipe dream several years ago with only a few getting there.

Anyway you look at it E85 is a boutique fuel. Its half way between PULP and outright racefuel as price/vs/economy its bad.

Ye you get more power out of it and can run more boost - but realistically for 99% of people, going to the servo ever 200-250km's or having to carry around a jerry can is a bit ridiculous

99cents a litre vs $12 a litre for C16!

The EVO's that we dual map tune about lose approximately 40km's a tank on E85 compared with 98, yet they gain around 40kW at all four. I know what I'd rather have.

Thanks for that info Justin, if you could get it to hold that extra couple of pounds up to you would see a gain again, still think it has to be something holding it back because the turbo is nowhere near its capability.

You could still run a stock engine on E85 and make awesome power, more and more tend to be taking advantage of the factory Nissan strength. Who would have thought we'd be pushing 400kW on a stock SR bottom end? Would like to see what an RB26 could do with the same treatment!

Edited December 8, 2010 by PJ.

[XRATED]

99cents a litre vs $12 a litre for C16!

Thanks for that info Justin, if you could get it to hold that extra couple of pounds up to you would see a gain again, still think it has to be something holding it back because the turbo is nowhere near its capability.

You could still run a stock engine on E85 and make awesome power, more and more tend to be taking advantage of the factory Nissan strength. Who would have thought we'd be pushing 400kW on a stock SR bottom end? Would like to see what an RB26 could do with the same treatment!

If even one servo down here had e85 I would run with duel maps and a bigger fuel system to race with e85... But not a single servo in Tassie is selling it yet.

The only thing that might.... might be holding me back on the exhaust side is the exhaust manifold and wastegate arrangment. I's the only thing that would account for the boost drop other than the exhaust housing... But the stock manifolds have been proven fine for upto 280-300

I'll happily take donations for the exhaust, oil and charge plumbing changes to put my hks low mount manifold on....... PJ any takers? ha ha ha.

[PJ.]

On our last edition of mythbusters, we ruled out the .63 restriction

It's christmas and all Justin, but I need to go faster too ho ho ho.

Powercruise will be here before we know it, and I need a bigger turbo

Edited December 8, 2010 by PJ.

[Lithium]

All this E85 talk makes it sound like you can't put a Garrett equivalent on a car and crank the boost up something mightily - its a bit unfair using a fuel you can get way more power out of the same airflow of and saying thats because the turbo allows you to. The reason you are getting more out of a smaller turbo isn't that the turbo is (necessarily) more efficient, its all about the air. To be funny I have tried to convince a mate of mine that he should upgrade the stock injectors on his stock turbo R33 and put an ECU in it and let me tune it on E85 before he upgrades the turbo as well and post the result on here just to see how flamed we get for suggesting the result is possible. I reckon it'd made for a ridiculous looking power curve...

The funny thing is YEARS ago I selected the GT3076R after researching all over the show and the numbers being thrown around here are numbers which the GT30Rs made using E85/C16/other equivalent high octane fuel way back in the day.

410kw @ hubs is the highest I can recall from a .82a/r GT3076R fwiw, maxed out on that particular setup - done by Evans tuning in the states back in 2005 who aren't "f*ck with the dyno settings to make it look good" cowboys, done obviously using good fuel. Hopefully I can refer to that now without getting the same response I did 5 years ago. Does the PT5557 do more?

[PJ.]

Only one way to find out! I'm assuming it was on a 6 cylinder?

And was it hubs or tyres?

[GTScotT]

410kw @ hubs

Only one way to find out! I'm assuming it was on a 6 cylinder?

And was it hubs or tyres?

Hubs baby, mwaa

Im actually sort of pleased with the 5557 result on 98 ron... Its not actually that shabby considering it would suit people running dual fuel.

On a skyline you could get around on 98 with the up to 250rwkw range and go e85 for 350 and big boost. Quite versatile, however I think the point Lith is trying to make is that this is nothing new..

The 98 result, TO ME, seems consistent with a fairly standard 250rwkw setup (GTRS excepted - 200kw@4krpm POWA)

[PJ.]

Ya, I read hubs too, just confirming though

[Lithium]

Only one way to find out! I'm assuming it was on a 6 cylinder?

And was it hubs or tyres?

It was a Honda

[kwickr33]

Found it very strange. A Garrett GT3582 is rated greater then the P5557, That would definitely pull over 300rwkws at 20psi with RON 98 fuel. Also by looking at his dynosheet, his boost tapered off even with external gate set. It indicates the .63 turbine housing is maxing out, I seriously delt that turbo can hold 35psi.

[PJ.]

We found it was able to hold 33psi flat. If you want to compare apples with apples, we held 45psi with a 6262 (same size as GT35) Good luck doing that with a 35.

[R31Nismoid]

Ye but by the same token it sounds like the GT35 doesnt NEED to hold 45psi as the wheels flow what's required at 10-20psi less.

IMO holding a peak boost number is utterly irrelevant. If anything its showing more and more that unless you have a built motor, are prepared to run 25psi+, then forget these turbos.

But as i said, still wanna see more results. Do you have any?

[PJ.]

I'll be more than happy to prove you wrong on the next 6262 we get, since we already have plenty of data with GT35's.

[Lithium]

I have no doubt the PT6262 will make more power, its a bigger compressor wheel - there is no magic. A more comparable unit would be the FP GT3586HTA... except that thing is just completely ridiculous in terms of what it makes:

http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=NTGT3586HTA&Category_Code=Turbo-FP

[PJ.]

The power I already know the answer to, moreso the response.

We've tuned about 8 FP turbo's so far and they are an awesome bit of gear, haven't tried the 3586 or 3794 yet, definitely keen to though!