The E85 Sparkplug Thread

[DVS JEZ]

Its not just to make more power and torque. Well not for me anyway. My internally stock rb26 see's the circuit a fair bit and i dont intend on blowing it up any time soon. I went to e85 cause its $1.08 per L and its 105 ish octane. So at the circuit with a safe ignition tune and 12-1 afr.

Im using it for safety. I didnt make any more power on e85 but i also didnt push the timing barrier.

U are right about egt's but it is expensive and difficult to put on the runners for most.

Fair enough if u are tuning for every last kw.

I think i might do what scotty nm35 has done a get a single sensor to mount

[The Dan]

Its not just to make more power and torque. Well not for me anyway. My internally stock rb26 see's the circuit a fair bit and i dont intend on blowing it up any time soon. I went to e85 cause its $1.08 per L and its 105 ish octane. So at the circuit with a safe ignition tune and 12-1 afr.

Im using it for safety. I didnt make any more power on e85 but i also didnt push the timing barrier.

U are right about egt's but it is expensive and difficult to put on the runners for most.

Fair enough if u are tuning for every last kw.

I think i might do what scotty nm35 has done a get a single sensor to mount

Yeah even a single sensor at the collector is going to be enough for most basic users. Even the odd track goer

[SimonR32]

If you don't run individual EGT's in each runner then don't bother using E85 coz you're wasting your time.

Yeah even a single sensor at the collector is going to be enough for most basic users. Even the odd track goer

Wait... WHAT?!?

EPIC BACKPEDDLE

[The Dan]

Wait... WHAT?!?

EPIC BACKPEDDLE

Seriously what the f**k is your problem?

Pull your head in

I said for most basic users. You're still going to get better results with individual runner temps. If you are going to post noob personal attacks, make sure they are funny coz you f**ken bore me

[DCIEVE]

I believe there biggest complaint is the massive amount of heat exhaust E85 generates.

Tuning Noels car to 0.8 lambda with 7's in, cold start was f**ked, missfired its arse off, tuned to 0.95 lambda and egt's went from 600 to 750 at the cylinder head.

Interested which it is, does e85 run cooler or hotter egt's. The SSE lancer kept breaking turbo's, apparently due to high egt's with e85 - yet elite racing is talking about egt's ranging from 600 to 750 deg C. I know of two cars on pump with individual egt's (identical logging set-ups) but otherwise quite different engine set-ups which both run near-on identical egt's ~900degC, approx 1" from the head.

Its not just to make more power and torque. Well not for me anyway. My internally stock rb26 see's the circuit a fair bit and i dont intend on blowing it up any time soon. I went to e85 cause its $1.08 per L and its 105 ish octane. So at the circuit with a safe ignition tune and 12-1 afr.

Im using it for safety. I didnt make any more power on e85 but i also didnt push the timing barrier.

U are right about egt's but it is expensive and difficult to put on the runners for most.

Fair enough if u are tuning for every last kw.

I don't know you can say monitoring egt's is expensive (difficult maybe for people with twins). For less than 1k your up and running... small change when even a budget engine build is north of 10k.

Edited January 8, 2011 by DCIEVE

[Super_Dude]

I'm going to be running E85 with my RB30 soon and this thread seems inconclusive.

I'm going to be making around 700-750whp. I'm looking at ngk r7436. They come in 8,9 and 10 heat ranges. What do you think?

[wolverine]

Interested which it is, does e85 run cooler or hotter egt's. The SSE lancer kept breaking turbo's, apparently due to high egt's with e85 - yet elite racing is talking about egt's ranging from 600 to 750 deg C. I know of two cars on pump with individual egt's (identical logging set-ups) but otherwise quite different engine set-ups which both run near-on identical egt's ~900degC, approx 1" from the head.

I imagine this depends on the amount of fuel and how much advance.

AFAIK EGT's can climb with relatively low advance as the flame front is slow to develop and combustion is continuing as it continues out the exhaust. Adding fuel doesn't lower EGT's in this case, it can increase them.

Presumably if you run more advance (in this case) and get the peak cylinder pressure up earlier (to complete full combustion earlier) then the EGT's should drop.

[Super_Dude]

The sse lancer was breaking turbos while using ms109. The switched to e85 the same time they went with the the EFR turbo and they haven't reported a failure yet.

[DCIEVE]

The sse lancer was breaking turbos while using ms109. The switched to e85 the same time they went with the the EFR turbo and they haven't reported a failure yet.

Not the case.

Here is Eric Hsu talking about breaking T04's on E85 in ways he didn't see on ms109.

It failed in the exact same way T04 #3 failed after the E85 changeover. Could it have something to do with the ferocity of the exhaust gases with E85? Whatever the reason, both failure modes on E85 were identical. Nothing else was changed on the engine. The wastegates and solenoid were running on the identical closed loop PIDs as before on VP MS109 fuel. We did not have any of these failures on the the VP fuel.

Ref: http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/1723/pageid/2405/sierra-sierra-evo-update-borgwarner-efr-turbos.aspx

Edited January 14, 2011 by DCIEVE

[Unkn0wn]

The reason it needs to be richer is when everything is cold when the fuel sprays out the inj it isnt atomised properly and sticks to the cold ports and valves etc so not much actually reaches the cylinder (too lean for combustion). Therefor a richer mix is needed so the correct amount needed is ready to burn. Once it starts and warms a little the mixtures can be leaned off back to target AFR

Im just doing some reading on e85 atm, i have no first world experience yet.

But if this was the case, then why not heat the fuel for startup? like the biodiesel need to be heated for startup?

or am i way off here?

[scotty nm35]

Delphi have designed heated tip ethanol injectors for this reason, and I thought about heating the fuel rail, but it's just easier to dump a shiteload of fuel in there to crank it, then back it out as the water temp comes up.

Another reason to have the stock fuel system running petrol and a secondary ethanol setup for boost. These problems would disappear and economy would be massively improved.

As for e85 burning colder, I have seen over 900 degrees Celsius measured just before the turbo at Sandown, but it was hitting the soft limit at the time. It still gets just as hot, you just have more overhead to run higher boost before it does.

[czy18e]

Sorry to revive old thread but it looks like I need to order in some colder plugs for my 650hp e85 set up as I am getting breakdown at the track at 28psi running bcpr7es

What should I order. Seems bcpr8es have been discontinued.

What are other drag/circuit cars running these days and at what gap?

Cheers for the help.

[KiwiRS4T]

Sorry to revive old thread but it looks like I need to order in some colder plugs for my 650hp e85 set up as I am getting breakdown at the track at 28psi running bcpr7es

What should I order. Seems bcpr8es have been discontinued.

What are other drag/circuit cars running these days and at what gap?

Cheers for the help.

Sure you have enough coil power?

[Hadouken]

What gap are you running?

[czy18e]

Not really, it missed a little on the dyno at 650hp and tuner backed off at 7200rpm and said try colder plugs.

At the track it missed like a bitch.

I was gonna try plugs and knock the boost down a couple of points.

[czy18e]

.6mm gap

[STATUS]

Sorry to revive old thread but it looks like I need to order in some colder plugs for my 650hp e85 set up as I am getting breakdown at the track at 28psi running bcpr7es

What should I order. Seems bcpr8es have been discontinued.

What are other drag/circuit cars running these days and at what gap?

Cheers for the help.

bkr8eix @0.55mm should do the trick, over 45psi in these without issues whereas the coppers would not light the pot and gapped under 0.6mm the coppers generally wont idle and cruise as crisp

[STATUS]

Handsdown the best plugs though. Getting years out of these in full racing conditions.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152504535921813&set=pb.728171812.-2207520000.1434853900.&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-xap1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F10931336_10152504535921813_3784371114340491290_n.jpg%3Foh%3Da3758414d35a6731f5381a1579750dae%26oe%3D5623096C%26__gda__%3D1445863737_568bcb1f0af99d51b67908776474fa90&size=960%2C720

[czy18e]

Status = legend.

Cheers I'll give em a run.

[89CAL]

Id never heard of brisk spark plugs till about a week ago but they look interesting, especially these ones

http://www.briskusa.com/brisk_multi_spark_plug

Seemed appropriate for this thread, not sure if anyones used them or if they are just a gimmick, but if they are as good as they look then i might try them one day