Differences Between Spring Types/rates?

[hardsteppa]

so just a quick one, with regards to measuring the spring rate between your conventional stock type springs and aftermarket coilover springs, is an 8kg spring measured the same in both kinds? Reason I ask is when I was asking a certain company about the 8/6 rates on their coilovers and how much harder that was than the stock 3kg(?) rates, I was told "yeah but you can't compare spring rates between the 2". Sorry for the noob question but if any ppl's have some explanation as to why, or if this is true or not, I'd love to hear. True they are different sizes/diamaeters/windings etc but if it takes 8kg to compress them a cm or mm or whatever the measurement, that would mean it takes 8kg to compress them, period, no matter what shape/size....or am I missing something?

(was looking at the BC coilovers btw, with their 8/6 standard spring rate)

thanks for ppl's inputs.

[MrStabby]

Yes they are directly comparable - its kg/mm. FWIW 8/6 is pretty stiff. If its a street only car, you'll probably want something softer (but it depends on what you like).

[hardsteppa]

yeah I have heard that about 8/6 for street. Was thinking 6/4 like in the other guy's current thread about coilover springs, does that then become too soft at the rear though? Maybe 6/5 instead? or is it better to keep the 2kg difference front to rear?

[krzysiu]

8/6 is fine. It's pretty much the standard rate that most people get for skylines. It's stiff but not bad enough to get sick of it

[mystery_kid]

yeah 8/6 is fine for street imo

there is a fair few sooks out there that seem to want this magical spring that feels like stock but handles like a race car too, which isn't realistic

[Munkyb0y]

make it handle like a race car with sway bars, not harsh springs.

8/6 would be fairly stiff. but everyone is different. best bet would be to ride in a car with those spring rates. often harder said than done though.

tein super streets are 4/4. definitely not too soft for street. i have them, and find them to be about perfect for street. they might be a bit too soft for track work though.

if i recall correctly, the sydneykid set up everyone was raving about used something like 4/3.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Munkyb0y

[hardsteppa]

  Quote

seem to want this magical spring that feels like stock but handles like a race car too, which isn't realistic

true there has to be compromise, but alot of the roads up here are faaaar from a race track.......so a track-like spring is not a good idea IMO, but I get what yr saying. I have Tein super streets in my ST185 and pretty sure they're alot stiffer than those for the R33, maybe more towards the 8/6? And I absolutely love em in that car....it does bounce over bumps alot but that's kinda fun in an all wheel drive car, however not what I'm after in this case. Would be after something a little more road-holding for the R33, I think most likely the 6/4 type rate.....anyone who's used these, would love to hear your thoughts.

Munkyboy, thanks for your thoughts on this. Do you get much roll with the 4/4 spring rate, and do you think the front would respond well with the stiffening to a 6kg spring? Seems like most kits have a stiffer front spring and thinking there must be a reason for this...?

Edited May 5, 2011 by hardsteppa

[-Jimmy-]

I've got 10/8 in my 32 and honestly it doesn't bother me one bit driving on the road. With the damping on the softest setting it's quite pleasant to drive, if I turn it all the way up I can notice a big difference on comfort.

[MrStabby]

  On 05/05/2011 at 10:28 AM, hardsteppa said:

Munkyboy, thanks for your thoughts on this. Do you get much roll with the 4/4 spring rate, and do you think the front would respond well with the stiffening to a 6kg spring? Seems like most kits have a stiffer front spring and thinking there must be a reason for this...?

You should control roll with sway bars, not springs. Stiffer front springs are because skylines are nose heavy.

I thought super streets were 6/4 ? Any stiffer than that for a street only car is a wank IMO, and will be worse for comfort AND roadholding.

[krzysiu]

I'm running adjustable whiteline sways and 8/6 greddy coilovers. I would not go softer.

[zebra]

The jap coil overs are stiff because a) their worst roads are like our best and b) their race tracks are like billiard tables.

[jjman]

  On 05/05/2011 at 7:39 AM, krzysiu said:

8/6 is fine. It's pretty much the standard rate that most people get for skylines. It's stiff but not bad enough to get sick of it

I also agree. iv got the 8/6 BC's and they are awesome. Had 9/10 before Tein/HKS (drift suspension) and it was nightmare stiff- ultra enjoyable for the few chances you get to use it for its intended purpose.

But again, all depends on your driving style. If you never get really stuck into corners, do mad breaking, and especially throw the odd drifty powerslide then maybe softer is an option. But if you do, then 8/6 is a magic number in my book (and many people's), especially if it is adjustable- also makes a big difference in being able to make it behave how you want it to

-not sure where in Aus u are but if you are in Perth let me know. ill take you for a spin.

Edited May 6, 2011 by jjman

[Ty1]

i run 6/4 bc br coilovers and couldn't recommend them enough. i purchased them from justjap and i think it was advertised as having 8kg f 6kg r but I requested 6/4 and i'm glad i did! the only bumps i really notice are speed bumps but apart from that its quite smooth. If your in brissie I'll take you for a spin

[MrStabby]

  On 06/05/2011 at 5:04 AM, jjman said:

But again, all depends on your driving style. If you never get really stuck into corners, do mad breaking, and especially throw the odd drifty powerslide then maybe softer is an option.

If you want grip, its about matching spring rate to the quality of road surface. If the road is rough, you will be faster on softer springs. If your roads are as good as a typical AU track, 8/6 will be about right. If they are worse than that, you will be faster on softer springs.

Stiffer springs does not necessarily mean faster, just like lower doesn't necessarily mean faster.

[nobby]

  On 05/05/2011 at 10:47 AM, MrStabby said:

You should control roll with sway bars, not springs. Stiffer front springs are because skylines are nose heavy.

I thought super streets were 6/4 ? Any stiffer than that for a street only car is a wank IMO, and will be worse for comfort AND roadholding.

Front stiffer to handle weight, and not just front weight but also to take kenetic enegery when breaking.

Rear slightly softer also allows car to throw its weight over/into rear axle for added traction under acceleration.

I'm no race driver but I'd hazzard a guess, drift cars for eg are set hard to help incress wheel spin.

So its a mixed bag as outlined depending on rd cond and your personal taste.

Its horses for courses.

Edited May 6, 2011 by nobby

[Munkyb0y]

  On 05/05/2011 at 10:47 AM, MrStabby said:

You should control roll with sway bars, not springs. Stiffer front springs are because skylines are nose heavy.

I thought super streets were 6/4 ? Any stiffer than that for a street only car is a wank IMO, and will be worse for comfort AND roadholding.

the only place i could find spring rates was on the nengun site. so i'm not 100% sure it's 4/4. it does seem a bit odd. i think they had the r34 super streets listed as 5/4 or maybe 6/4.

if anyone knows where to find spring rates for r33 gtst super streets, post it up here.

all i know is they do a great job, whatever they are.

.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Munkyb0y

[hardsteppa]

Tein website lists r33 super streets as being 4/4. Thought it was abit unusual at the time, pretty much everything else on there is a split rate.

Thanks for the offers of drives, all the way up in Cairns tho

[hardsteppa]

tein super streets specs

http://www.tein.co.jp/search/search1.cgi?act=ITEM&item=SS&make=NISSAN〈=en

[Munkyb0y]

cheers mate. 4/4 for 32gts 33gts 33gtr. all the rest are split rates. interesting.

btw, i also confirmed with fulcrum. they are indeed 4kg/mm F + R

[Ishman]

  On 07/05/2011 at 3:10 AM, hardsteppa said:

Tein website lists r33 super streets as being 4/4. Thought it was abit unusual at the time, pretty much everything else on there is a split rate.

Thanks for the offers of drives, all the way up in Cairns tho

Hi, I'm up in Cairns also and the roads can be really rough. I've got D2 racing suspension on my R33 GTR, had Fulcrum try and soften them up, they said the front springs were under 800lb, what kg/mm ratio is that likely to be- I think they said Tein super streets are around 250lb- I know they're hard that's for sure. If I try and soften them much more I think I'll bounce off a bad corner- I drive up and down a mountain range each day, only way I can justify having such hard springs still