The Gravel Rally Thread

[MBS206]

Thanks guys,

Might be safer then for now to pull the welded diff out, and slip in my spare viscous LSD and just add a shim or two in there (It used to love to open spin).

As Zeb said, my R33 is being built just for shits and giggles, and is currently part way through an LS1 with a T56 gearbox conversion.

Motor will be completely standard, and just tuned with an exhaust... Expected RW outpu will be around 200 - 220RWKW. With the standard ratio skyline diff, I should be looking at the following speeds for 1st through 4th with a 7000RPM redline...

61

91

124

161

I assume this would be "short enough" considering it's a big displacement V8?

You guys mentioned earlier "inserts" for the suspension... I'm going to be completely noob here and say... "Wahhh???".

In terms of springs and shocks, are you normally softer or stiffer then circuit/tarmac cars?

Currently the car has standard springs and shocks in it, but I was factoring into spending a little bit (Say upto $1500 on new shocks/springs) when I was going to use it for sprinting, and I probably would have bought the BC range of coil overs as I've been seeing some impressive results (VS the price of them), but I am completely in the dark on what would be acceptable in the dirt...

I have adjustable upper and lower front camber arms, adjustable upper arms (Once I get back down to Zebra's anyway...), and would just be looking for a good basic shock and spring setup. What would you guys recommend?

[warps]

WIth the torque of the LS1, I think you will be shredding tyres regardless of what gear you're in. I reckon you'll be doing 2nd gear starts, then dropping it into 4th and leaving it there.

Gravel cars are set up softer than tarmac, purely because grip levels aren't as high, and they tend to be set up higher than tarmac cars. It's all about suspension travel (look at how far a WRC car moves on its springs and you get an idea). I'd suggest for a budget kit you could try new inserts (shock absorbers) with your stock springs. You might find you need to go slightly stiffer. Running it through my SWAG software (Sweet Wild Arsed Guess) Id be suggestng 25% stiffer than stock to start with.

Coilovers will give you much better choice in springs and easier ride hight adjustment, but will cost more. Just be careful becasue most of the off the shelf coilover kits will have reduced travel, as they are set up for tarmac racing. This is not a good thing for gravel rallying.

As has been said before, if your local rally roads are fairly smooth, then you will get away with less suspension travel, and lighter springs. In that case, the stock springs with decent (eg Bilstein) shocks will be the go. If you're starting to bottom out / run out of suspension, then look towards coilovers (either custom made from stock gear, or something off the shelf to suit gravel).

One thing to be very aware of is that gravel rally tyres are almost impossible to find in 16" or bigger, so you will need to run 15" rims on your car. AFAIK, 15's won't fit over R33 GTST brakes. You'll need to look at options here and spend some $$. Not an insurmountable problem, but just a spanner in the works.

[FLN75S]

Agree with Warps well said,

there is a R30 skyline with an LS1 running at the moment in Amsag, it does go dam hard and will all that torque keeping rear tyres upto it will be the biggest struggle lol

Wheels will certainly be an issue the rears will fit fine as i have 33 rear brakes in mine, its the front that has trouble. You can buy proper rally wheels that do have better clearance and i think they would fit but its going to require some checking so keep that in mind.

If your going to run Amsag they do have some shire events that are very smooth and fast but some other events have plenty of jumps etc so it will be important to get some good suspension travel.

[Beer Baron]

yeah to echo the guys above I wouldn't go for any off the shelf BC/HSD/hop sing chinese coil overs as they all have less travel than stock. a set of bilstein or koni shock inserts in the standard body's would be a good start. otherwise tough it out on the stock gear for a while till you can afford (and justify) buying a set of DMS or MCA rally suitable coil-overs with plenty of travel.

i would stay away from the full locker. something like a jap 1.5way mech lsd would be the go. you do want some locking action under brakes so you can get a nice sharp turn in (too much lock and it will just want to go straight and you'll be understeering and having to work that handbrake like a mad man). but you need some oversteer on exit to get the nose pointed at the apex to fire you out.

as far as getting 15s over your brakes look into those rally wheel options or the other option would be a set of TE37s in 15 inch, they may well clear the stock 296mm rotors and 4 piston calipers.

[PHaT MR30]

Yeh seriously I wouldn't give a shit about power on gravel its amazing how quick you can get anyway, even in a 4AGE Levin with 90?rwkw we were spending a generous amount of time in 4th gear and by the jist of it these 'shire' events would be quicker/smoother than what we are running on down here.

If I were building a gravel rally car now, id build it in this order: suspension/bushes etc, diff, brakes, gearbox, engine.

As for wheels you will find the top ARC guys probably cycle a new set of rims each year so the old ones would generally be up for sale. We got all of Ralliart/Pedders old wheels which really only need a clean up and lick of paint (they get rashed pretty bad anyway).

Another options for brakes might be 300zx/S14 280mm rotors/calipers??? surely they would clear 15s? currently going through this issue at the moment with the IX as the standard RS brakes (which are scarily the same as whats on a pov spec lancer) just do not cut the mustard (Read: were not pulling the car up and rotors were white hot when we got to service). Short of forking out $15k for Brembo VO's there isn't a huge amount of off the shelf options.

[FLN75S]

Entries are now open for the Forbes Shire event run by Amsag, it is the 3rd round of the southern cross rally series and the second round of the 2wd rally master series.

http://www.amsag.com.au/Forbes.php

I'll be putting in my entry this week, anyone else going to be there?

[MBS206]

Not until the car is finished... LOL

[Dale FZ1]

Entries are now open for the Forbes Shire event run by Amsag, it is the 3rd round of the southern cross rally series and the second round of the 2wd rally master series.

http://www.amsag.com.au/Forbes.php

I'll be putting in my entry this week, anyone else going to be there?

I'd say you'll see a Qld based Celica there. Interested to know how your S13 compares to it.

[FLN75S]

Yeh there should be a few cars i have not run against before being a joint round at this event, i'm looking forward to it.

[LNG 33S]

Ill be there in the silly seat of this powerhouse

http://www.blcc.com.au/gallery/AMSAGOb2010/pages/_A306142.htm

...will be running on E85 for the first time, catch us if you can Flint! haha

no but seriously, we wont finish! not with every we have done, too much stuff is different!

Im sure Flint and I will both post some incare and links for everything once the rally had been run and won!

[Duncan]

Tas rally is on this weekend....where are the dirties from Tassie?

[PHaT MR30]

Hiding cos our car still isn't repaired And driver still on crutches

Duncan did JR ever got in contact with you RE the SAU Christmas Dinner?

[Duncan]

Actually...no! But Barry did pass on his details so thanks for helping out! I need to chase him again actually.

Sounds like the Tassie field will be down a few after the number of crashes last round. How's the weather looking for the weekend?

[PHaT MR30]

Weather looks to be fine, but that always changes down here as you know!

Looks like only 15 entries so far

[FLN75S]

Ill be there in the silly seat of this powerhouse

http://www.blcc.com....es/_A306142.htm

...will be running on E85 for the first time, catch us if you can Flint! haha

no but seriously, we wont finish! not with every we have done, too much stuff is different!

Im sure Flint and I will both post some incare and links for everything once the rally had been run and won!

Haha yeh i think power at this event will be important looking at what the roads will be like, lets jut hope it doesnt start snowing with the way the weather is at the moment lol.

[PHaT MR30]

A mate of mine has been out today to write the road book for a round of our state championship...

I have suggested we run the rally in June next year not September!

[Marlin]

Wicked!

[Kel]

Missed you on the weekend Timmy!

No snow on the roads afterall but it was a bit of fun- especially the stage we did with absolutely no brakes thanks to a rock twice the size of my fist taking out a rear brake bleed nipple and all the brake fluid with it.

We dropped minutes but still managed the P2 win and max 2WD points for the series thankfully.

[FLN75S]

Well am back from the Amsag Forbes Shire Rally on the weekend.

It was a very well run event and the roads were extremely fast and smooth, it was definitely a shock to the system when you take off on the 1st stage and proceed to wind the car off the clock lol. It caught me out on the brakes department unfortunately and i had trouble all day with them overheating when i had to pull it up from over 180km/h + definitely not a good feeling.

Apart from that though the car ran very well and strong all day with only 1 small off when i misjudged how tight a corner was and it was mainly because i should off changed the rear tyres as they were stuffed after stage 4 and me trying to get a few more kms out of them cost me some valuable time in the 3 stages after lunch.

The day was made up of 8 stages 3 of which were over 40kms, Ben Barker in the BMW took the day followed by Schofield in the EVO 9. I ended up 8th and 2nd in my class which i am happy with as its the first event i have finished with the new suspension.

There was a couple of crashes during the day with 1 off the Aussie Duct BDA Escorts hitting a tree and the Longs backing it into a tree as well.

I will get some in car up to show the speed and conditions of the roads and i'll get the incar from the Longs crash as well..

[Beer Baron]

well done jason. that is some serious speed on the loose stuff mate!