Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone,

I have a fully built FJ20 which currently makes 400HP at 17psi with a GT3040 on it. This is on BP ultimate 98 and the reason it doesn't make more power is because my injectors are flat out (only 550s)

I want to upgrade the injectors but i quite like the idea of using E85.

I have a single Bosch 044 fed from a 1.5l surge tank and 3/8ths fuel lines. As i mentioned i have a 550cc injectors which i know will be far too small. I also have a Wolf V4 running the whole show which my tuner was already having difficulty stabilising the fuel map with the 550s.

What will i need to run E85 with this engine and what can i expect as far as horsepower goes? will it come on earlier with the extra timing that you can run with E85 and is there any dramas with the fuel as far as damaging fuel lines or any of that stuff i hear.

I really don't know much about the fuel as far as real world applications go. I have only read forums and other peoples findings.

Any insight would be great,

Thanks.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/396386-running-e85-in-my-fj20/
Share on other sites

As above, changed my lines to teflon, 1000's, twin pumps etc. You may get away with the 044 depending on how much you lean on it.

I wouldn't trust the stock lines in a car that old if you use them for return, and I would keep an eye on the seam welds in the fuel tank occasionally.

Off the shelf fuel hose is fine in most applications maybe check your brand of hose online for compatibility but should be fine..get some get some 740-1000cc injectors if you can..

I think some have been having issues with Bosch 44s but just try it and see how it goes..

Remember to check your filter often as it tends to clean out the crap

Yeah Bryn! of course i want more. I think 430-440hp on pump fuel would be as far as i would want to go. No safeguard for a warm day or something like that.

I just need to know what to expect and what the real world gains would be. At this stage i wold upgrade my surge tank, all rubber lines, add another Bosch 044 with a highflow cleanable filter and 1000cc injectors.

What sort of real gains have people on this forum found with the fuel. Was it difficult to tune and what surprises have people found?

I think 450hp would be pretty special for a street driven bluebird but i don't want it to be on the limit as far as the tune goes. My reasoning to change to this fuel is just to have more of a safeguard against detonation.

Can anyone else add their experiences?

G

Methanol is bad... That shit will kill you. I wouldn't want it laying around where my kids would find it, inside the car or in the shed.

Each persons circumstances will be different depending on where the closest e85 servo is, and how old the car is. In general anything r32 or after would be fine on the stock fuel system meaning its just filling at a different pump. Whats so hard about that?

I don't understand why every thread has to end in a debate about e85 and its merits. There have been enough applications around the world to prove its power gains and resistance to det, how about we all get on board and help this fledgling industry become mainstream so there is a nozzle in every servo. Its a much better option than LPG imo and modern petrol is crap at the end of the day.

For that power level, a single 044 will be fine, even on E85. Unless you're running huge fuel pressure through those injectors, it can't be making more than 350hp at the wheels so it may be quite a happy dyno. That turbo is way, way too huge for that application. You could downsize turbo to a GTX2867R and make that power easily on E85 and it's be on boost WAY, WAY earlier.

I'd just leave everything as-is except for ID1000 injectors and a fuel filter just before the rail and just keen an eye on the filter.

What will i need to run E85 with this engine and what can i expect as far as horsepower goes? will it come on earlier with the extra timing that you can run with E85?

Thanks.

^ I agree the turbo is too big if you want response, what rear housing is on it btw? You could possibly hit 350kw with e85 and the current turbo, but it wont spool any better than it does now unless you drop the turbine housing AR.

Do you have a dyno graph handy?

For that power level, a single 044 will be fine, even on E85. Unless you're running huge fuel pressure through those injectors, it can't be making more than 350hp at the wheels so it may be quite a happy dyno. That turbo is way, way too huge for that application. You could downsize turbo to a GTX2867R and make that power easily on E85 and it's be on boost WAY, WAY earlier.

I'd just leave everything as-is except for ID1000 injectors and a fuel filter just before the rail and just keen an eye on the filter.

Can vouch for it making that power. On the same dyno as mine and alot of other mates cars... How can u say turbo is too big and he should downsize when gareth wants

MORE power.

Methanol is out of the question, it's a street car and when i want to drive it, i do. I want to know the benefits and problems of E85 in a real street application for this reason and if it's worth doing.

The engine has custom pistons, rods, head porting 291 deg in and out cams. external oil pump setup etc etc and was built by Mark Ashford. It is a drag engine for all intents and purposes and i ask about response because i know you can run a lot more timing with E85. In fact, i don't think it's a laggy engine. I have usable boost and power early enough for the street and even going for night time mountain runs it's no real drama off tight corners. (also run 4:11s) Was just curious to find out if it would come on earlier.

So at this stage, i'm looking at only minimal upgrades and a re tune.

Basically what i'm looking for is what i can expect if i did the fuel swap and tune. Scotty, another 50kw with the current setup would be excellent. Are you saying that with the same boost levels or more boost to go with that. That would be around a 20% gain by just switching fuel which is what i have read.

394hp_Big_Bird.jpg

Edited by Gareth87

No gain by just switching fuel

More boost and timing will be needed to make more power

You will often find it will be a little laggier with E85 or it might go the otherway, each engine/tuner seems to report different results

Go E85 and wind 28psi into the thing and you will love it

Personally I would like boost to hit no later than 4k which a smaller rear may help you to, with e85 the exhaust temps wont be as high for the same boost, so you can get away with more pressure in the manifold imo. If you are happy with the tune the way it is and just want power gains then just drop the injectors in and see what it can do.

Your tuner will be able to lean on the boost and see where it stops gaining torque, who are you taking it to?

No gain by switching fuel alone?!! I picked up almost 40rwkw by swapping fuel alone with 4-5psi less boost! I didnt notice any turbo response gains in my case but the midrange power increase is epic and off boost driving feels noticebly more rapid with more torque plus the sweet smell and lack of soot coming outta the back end are all good things. But i definately agree with zeeb run E85 and wind the boost into it and love it! [quoe name=zebra' timestamp='1333186279' post='6298115]

No gain by just switching fuel

More boost and timing will be needed to make more power

You will often find it will be a little laggier with E85 or it might go the otherway, each engine/tuner seems to report different results

Go E85 and wind 28psi into the thing and you will love it

+1 i agree smaller housings can be ran on E85 without too much restriction on a T3 also as long as its externally gated.. Would maybe few kw off the final number matter too much if boost was on much earlier? Personally I would like boost to hit no later than 4k which a smaller rear may help you to, with e85 the exhaust temps wont be as high for the same boost, so you can get away with more pressure in the manifold imo. If you are happy with the tune the way it is and just want power gains then just drop the injectors in and see what it can do.

Your tuner will be able to lean on the boost and see where it stops gaining torque, who are you taking it to?

No gain by switching fuel alone?!! I picked up almost 40rwkw by swapping fuel alone with 4-5psi less boost! I didnt notice any turbo response gains in my case but the midrange power increase is epic and off boost driving feels noticebly more rapid with more torque plus the sweet smell and lack of soot coming outta the back end are all good things. But i definately agree with zeeb run E85 and wind the boost into it and love it! [quoe name=zebra' timestamp='1333186279' post='6298115]

No gain by just switching fuel

More boost and timing will be needed to make more power

You will often find it will be a little laggier with E85 or it might go the otherway, each engine/tuner seems to report different results

Go E85 and wind 28psi into the thing and you will love it

so you went from 98 to e85 without tuning or changing anything else and gained 40rwkw? i dont think so, mainly because if you tried this the car wouldnt run.

if you swapped fuels then tuned it, then yes you will get a gain, and thats what the original poster said when he said boost or timing will be required to make more power.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • From there, it is really just test and assemble. Plug the adapter cables from the unit into the back of the screen, then the other side to the car harness. Don't forget all the other plugs too! Run the cables behind the unit and screw it back into place (4 screws) and you should now have 3 cables to run from the top screen to the android unit. I ran them along the DS of the other AV units in the gap between their backets and the console, and used some corrugated tubing on the sharp edges of the bracket so the wires were safe. Plug the centre console and lower screen in temporarily and turn the car to ACC, the AV should fire up as normal. Hold the back button for 3 sec and Android should appear on the top screen. You need to set the input to Aux for audio (more on that later). I put the unit under the AC duct in the centre console, with the wifi antenna on top of the AC duct near the shifter, the bluetooth antenna on the AC duct under the centre console The GPS unit on top of the DS to AC duct; they all seem to work OK there are are out of the way. Neat cable routing is a pain. For the drive recorder I mounted it near the rear view mirror and run the cable in the headlining, across the a pillar and then down the inside of the a pillar seal to the DS lower dash. From there it goes across and to one USB input for the unit. The second USB input is attached to the ECUtec OBD dongle and the 3rd goes to the USB bulkhead connected I added in the centre console. This is how the centre console looks "tidied" up Note I didn't install the provided speaker, didn't use the 2.5mm IPod in line or the piggyback loom for the Ipod or change any DIP switches; they seem to only be required if you need to use the Ipod input rather than the AUX input. That's it, install done, I'll follow up with a separate post on how the unit works, but in summary it retains all factory functions and inputs (so I still use my phone to the car for calls), reverse still works like factory etc.
    • Place the new daughterboard in the case and mount it using the 3 small black rivets provided, and reconnect the 3 factory ribbon cables to the new board Then, use the 3 piggyback cables from the daughterboard into the factory board on top (there are stand offs in the case to keep them apart. and remember to reconnect the antenna and rear cover fan wires. 1 screw to hold the motherboard in place. Before closing the case, make a hole in the sticker covering a hole in the case and run the cable for the android unit into the plug there. The video forgot this step, so did I, so will you probably. Then redo the 4 screws on back, 2 each top and bottom, 3 each side and put the 2 brackets back on.....all ready to go and not that tricky really.      
    • Onto the android unit. You need to remove the top screen because there is a daughterboard to put inside the case. Each side vent pops out from clips; start at the bottom and carefully remove upwards (use a trim remover tool to avoid breaking anything). Then the lower screen and controls come out, 4 screws, a couple of clips (including 3 flimsy ones at the top) and 3 plugs on the rear. Then the upper screen, 4 screws and a bunch of plugs and she is out. From there, remove the mounting brackets (2 screws each), 4 screws on the rear, 2 screws top and bottom and 3 screws holding in the small plates on each side. When you remove the back cover (tight fit), watch out for the power cable for the fan, I removed it so I could put the back aside. The mainboard is held in by 1 screw in the middle, 1 aerial at the top and 3 ribbon cables. If you've ever done any laptop stuff the ribbon cables are OK to work with, just pop up the retainer and they slide out. If you are not familiar just grab a 12 year old from an iphone factory, they will know how it works The case should now look like this:
    • Switching the console was tricky. First there were 6 screws to remove, and also the little adapter loom and its screws had to come out. Also don't forget to remove the 2 screws holding the central locking receiver. Then there are 4 clips on either side....these were very tight in this case and needed careful persuading with a long flat screw driver....some force required but not enough to break them...this was probably the fiddliest part of the whole job. In my case I needed both the wiring loom and the central locking receiver module to swap across to the new one. That was it for the console, so "assembly is the reverse of disassembly"
    • But first....while I was there, I also swapped across the centre console box for the other style where the AV inputs don't intrude into the (very limited !) space.  Part# was 96926-4GA0A, 284H3-4GA0B, 284H3-4GA0A. (I've already swapped the top 12v socket for a USB bulkhead in this pic, it fit the hole without modification:) Comparison of the 2: Basically to do the console you need to remove the DS and PS side console trim (they slide up and back, held in by clips only) Then remove the back half of the console top trim with the cupholders, pops up, all clips again but be careful at the front as it is pretty flimsy. Then slide the shifter boot down, remove the spring clip, loose it forever somewhere in the car the pull the shift knob off. Remove the tiny plastic piece on DS near "P" and use something thin and long (most screwdrivers won't fit) to push down the interlock and put the shifter down in D for space. There is one screw at the front, then the shifter surround and ashtray lift up. There are 3 or 4 plugs underneath and it is off. Next is the rear cover of the centre console; you need to open the console lid, pop off the trim covering the lid hinge and undo the 2rd screw from the driver's side (the rest all need to come out later so you can do them all now and remove the lid) Then the rear cover unclips (6 clips), start at the top with a trim tool pulling backwards. Once it is off there are 2 screws facing rearwards to remove (need a short phillips for these) and you are done with the rear of the console. There are 4 plugs at the A/V box to unclip Then there are 2 screws at the front of the console, and 2 clips (pull up and back) and the console will come out.
×
×
  • Create New...