Built 26, Best Single/mani Combo For Around 370Kws ?

[XRATED]

Trust T67 25g 10cm. Can't beat it with a stick........ for what you want.

[GTScotT]

As much as I like your setup Simon, the HTA3076 is far from a bastardised version lol. Unless your calling the GTX a POS of sorts.

I think FP put a lot of effort into their compressors. Its a nice unit man, you should check it out. Also, 370 on an E85 3076 isnt unheard of either.

[XRATED]

Whatever you do... don't buy a Precision turbo.

[DVS JEZ]

Whatever you do... don't buy a Precision turbo.

Y

[SimonR32]

As much as I like your setup Simon, the HTA3076 is far from a bastardised version lol. Unless your calling the GTX a POS of sorts.

I think FP put a lot of effort into their compressors. Its a nice unit man, you should check it out. Also, 370 on an E85 3076 isnt unheard of either.

Sorry, I wasn't being derogatory by using the term bastarised! I just meant any non-Garrett billet version, no doubt there are some great ones around...

In saying that my set up isn't the best money can buy, clearly you can do better, but I would probably say it's the best cheap money can buy haha

On a roller I would say you may struggle to hit 370rwkw on a 3076R, all the ones we do on the hubber seem to make around 370rwkw when pushed but you will loose another 7-8% jumping onto a roller

Edited May 8, 2012 by SimonR32

[Lithium]

In saying that my set up isn't the best money can buy, clearly you can do better, but I would probably say it's the best cheap money can buy haha

Agreed, for a cheap setup I can't think of a better combination straight off the top of my head.

A GT30 turbine wheel at 350rwkw would be choking like all hell. I'd go a GTX3576R with a T3 divided 1.06 housing if you're not keen to go down the BW path (again).

On pump gas, yes it would. On E85, 350kw isn't so much of a tall ask IMHO. We have guys here who were running nearer 400kw @ 4 hubs on track cars with standard issue 56t GT3076Rs. The 370rwkw target can't be promised, though inconsistant dyno reading levels across the board mean that its a bit of a hard one to call - realistically the best any of us can do is suggest turbos that would float in that range and offer a good compromise between the acceleration and response he'd hope for in terms of things in that range.

In regards to the GTX3576R TS, I'm not convinced it'd justify its price. This is going to be a track car, the ATP twin scroll housings are not the most reliable under heavy use and there is a real chance of the divider failing - unless you know of someone else making a 1.06TS turbine housing for these. Would be an interesting combination, they have me curious but so far unconvinced.

On a roller I would say you may struggle to hit 370rwkw on a 3076R, all the ones we do on the hubber seem to make around 370rwkw when pushed but you will loose another 7-8% jumping onto a roller

There are plenty that have gone >360kw on hub dynos on E85, bare in mind the vast majority here have internal gates, and pump gas - there aren't THAT many with decent plenums, exhaust manifolds, E85 and 20+psi of boost going through them.

In regards to the GT3076R-HTA, and dyno readings - I'm sure most people know Mustang dynos are probably the closest reading dynos to Dyno Dynamics. Here's an interesting thread where a guy with a twin scroll EFR7670 runs into issues with his build which was initially tuned on a Dynapack and made over 600hp @ hubs. His car ends up being tuned later by Buschur Racing on his Mustang Dyno, where it ends up in the mid 500whp range - then finds itself subject to a comparison with a single scroll GT3076R HTA with a TiAL .82a/r turbine housing, and the results are interesting...

Full thread can be seen here: http://m.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=573459

And where Buschur retunes it, and gives his thoughts on how the EFR behaves - and then the conversation floats into comparison with the GT3076R HTA in following pages: http://m.evolutionm.net/showpost.php?p=9705827&postcount=298

I more show the thread as general information, you can see that the GT30 when matched with a compressor that appears to get on well with it isn't THAT much of a problem (considering the EFRs are supposed to be "all that" in terms of turbine flow and the HTA looks to be happier. If you were to believe the BW/Full Race hype the EFR7670 would be THE no expense spared turbo to choose for these kinds of power levels, and here we have a single scroll HTA turbo schooling one.

[bradsm87]

The new .82 and 1.06 T3 divided housings are supposedly 100% garrett unlike the .78 housings that are sleeved by ATP.

I know high 300's can be done with a GT30 turbine but I'll pass on having 50psi in my exhaust manifold.

[scotty nm35]

Damn, I cant see the m.evolution links as Avast antivirus detected malware. lol.

Can you quote the important posts perhaps Lithium, like the graphs?

[Lithium]

OK, for people who can't see EVOM:

E85, 30psi, EFR7670, Dynapack:

On Mustang at 28psi:

I pulled up my logs from the HTA3076. The lowest boost the turbo was run at was 30.5 psi peak. On that run the car made 557 whp-500 ft lbs. The car hit 20 psi at 3650 rpm. 30.5 psi was hit at 4079 rpm' date=' at 8,000 rpm the car still had 25.6 psi of boost.

So yes, the EFR 7670 is making good power at 28.3 psi with it's 539 whp/480 ft lbs. It's 2.2 psi of boost down, figuring about 10/10 increase per psi, we'd be at 559/500, just about identical to the HTA3076. Being identical to what some have basically called back yard engineered technology isn't stellar if you ask me. Boost wise the EFR7670 was at 20 psi at 3863 rpm, 28.3 at 4379 and down to 22 psi at 8,000 rpm. All of which are lower/less than the HTA3076.

I would take the HTA3076 hands down, no questions asked over this turbo. Take into consideration the small tube header on this EFR kit and the twin scroll housing. Then take into consideration the HTA3076 was tested on my large diameter runner single scroll .82 a/r housing. It's a no brainer.[/quote']

... And for an actual 3076HTA dyno plot on full attack (ok, not what you'd normally do - but if it can go THIS far then I'd have thought 370awkw/500whp shouldn't be out of the question):

Robert at Forced Performance wanted me to try this HTA3076 at 40 psi of boost before I removed it from my RS. I told him no problem' date=' when I got a chance. Well this morning I had a few minutes between dyno tunes and we threw the car on the dyno. I guessed at the boost controller, but since it is a BR controller my guess was on the money[img']http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:forums.evolutionm.net/get/images/smilies/wink.gif[/img] The car hit a peak boost of 39.8 psi, I spent no additional time dialing in timing or AFR's, the car is a bit rich up top gets down to about 11.5:1, not horrible and not hurting power but the point is I spent no time optimizing the tune.

Anyway, I will let this graph speak for itself:

That my friends is BAD ASS! The un-smoothed numbers came up 609 whp and 610 ft lbs of torque! This is the first car I know of that has broken 600 ft lbs on this dyno. This is the basic power/torque I was looking for when I built my RS this last time and why the 2.3RPM engine lives today, for this purpose 600+ ft lbs of torque.

Unbelievable. This IS the turbo for an EVO. I will have a hard time recommending a Green/Red or anything else to most EVO owners after doing the testing on this turbo this week.

[SimonR32]

Impressive, I would be keen to see some plots on 20-25psi!

[Lithium]

Did you follow the link and read the customer reviews of them?

One of the guys was a 2.5litre Subie guy making 21psi by 3750rpm, and 325awkw (436whp on a Mustang Dyno) on US 93 Octane at 24psi... I found a thread from the same guy, see here: http://forums.nasioc...d.php?t=2083214

Made 499awhp on 28psi on C16, E85 would probaby get similar or better gains.

[black bnr32]

a journal bearing Precision would be a good, cost effective option.

[Dajae]

So basically what i could gather from your post Lith, is that GT3076-HTA = uncensored turbo pr0n. Like the gtx series, do these respond better to high pressure ratios? I cant seem to find a compressor map for these..

[Lithium]

I haven't experienced one first hand, and there are no flow maps that I have seen released so I am only going from results and testimonies - which I have not found anything but good from. I have mates with FP GT3582R-HTA and FP GT3586R-HTA turbos and they have had awesome luck with those too, both at sane boost levels and at high ones, so I consider FP and their HTA technology to be a reasonably safe bet to deliver.

From results I've seen, I can definitely extrapolate that yeah... like the GTX it is a turbo which starts coming into its own as boost levels drift north of 1.2bar boost as opposed to everywhere. This doesn't mean its going to lack at all compared to a run of the mill GT30R etc at those levels, it just means that its not a replacement for a bigger turbo like a GT3582R (or bigger) *IF* you have an engine that has huge flow at moderate boost levels. They perform well across the board, but if you're going to take them with a dose of alcohol and 20+psi - thats where you're going to get some impressive numbers compared to a run of the mill item.

The thing that attracts these to me is that they provide better response and theoretical compressor/turbine match than the normal GT3076R (as opposed to the GTX, which Garrett ended up deciding better suited to a GT35) so a GT3076R-HTA technically has it over a normal GT3076R even if it flowed no better at any boost level.

[SimonR32]

I found a good test on a comparison of a 3076R, 3582R, HTA 3076R, HTA 3582R and a PTE 5858 last night and bookmarked the link at home, just did a quick google and couldn't find it again but I'll post tonight if I remember...

The general gist was the HTA made tiny bit more power top end and a decent amount better response

[bri73y]

I've asked Full Race for their opinion/selection given my target.

Will be interesting to see what they come back with given they have many turbos in their stable to choose from.

[GTScotT]

I've asked Full Race for their opinion/selection given my target.

Will be interesting to see what they come back with given they have many turbos in their stable to choose from.

And you expect the response to be anything short of: 'The BW EFR is the bee's knee's, buy this now.' ?

I doubt a company as commercial as FR will recommend a product they don't back.

On the same token I'm sure if you email FP they are going to recommend you the HTA LOL.

[bri73y]

And you expect the response to be anything short of: 'The BW EFR is the bee's knee's, buy this now.' ?

I doubt a company as commercial as FR will recommend a product they don't back.

On the same token I'm sure if you email FP they are going to recommend you the HTA LOL.

That may be true, but they offer several brands and they are well aware of my history with EFR.

I've also told Brett I'm looking for a 'budget' type solution so that probably rules out EFR.

He'll give me a fair assessment, no question.

[bri73y]

I found a good test on a comparison of a 3076R, 3582R, HTA 3076R, HTA 3582R and a PTE 5858 last night and bookmarked the link at home, just did a quick google and couldn't find it again but I'll post tonight if I remember...

The general gist was the HTA made tiny bit more power top end and a decent amount better response

Definately interested in this!

[Lithium]

FullRace and budget option sounds contradictory, very interested to know what they suggest and associated cost