R34 GTT Front Crank Gone

[BlazenR34]

R34 GTT Front Crank Gone

Posted in the QLD thread as well but just thought it would be good here for a more global reach. Hope that's alright Mods.

As you can see from the images below the front crank has been totally worn affecting the Harmonic Balancer and everything else etc effectively make the motor and car dead atm. My car has been extremely well looked after as with everything I own its just one of those devastating things that has happened as the mechanic has said and I still can't believe it. Car has done 130K.

I'm just feeling out the options as its essentially an engine rebuild and i'm doing career stuff overseas etc this is going to be extremely costly. Should i repair/rebuild/wield/sell/hold off any ideas and opinions are welcome.

Based on the Gold Coast.

Thanks in advance everyone.

[Duncan]

sorry to hear that, it's always sad to loose an engine, especially your first.

Was the timing belt ever changed, and do you know by who?

Cheapest way out would be to swap to another second hand motor, will probably cost 2-5k depending what you pay for the motor and how much labour you have to pay for.  To repair this motor you would replace the crank, and probably rings, bearings and oil pump while it's all apart. I wouldn't weld up the crank personally, although I know it has been done, these are long engines and if the crank is bent at all you will spin a bearing soon after anyway

[BlazenR34]

6 hours ago, Duncan said:

sorry to hear that, it's always sad to loose an engine, especially your first.

Was the timing belt ever changed, and do you know by who?

Cheapest way out would be to swap to another second hand motor, will probably cost 2-5k depending what you pay for the motor and how much labour you have to pay for.  To repair this motor you would replace the crank, and probably rings, bearings and oil pump while it's all apart. I wouldn't weld up the crank personally, although I know it has been done, these are long engines and if the crank is bent at all you will spin a bearing soon after anyway

Thanks for your reply mate. Yeah first ever problem with her and it has to be the one of largest, worst luck.

The timing belt it seems after looking at the sticker was done @96,500kms A Gates Timing Belt (rated for 190k) by South Coast Auto Care http://www.southcoastautocare.com.au/ but I'm not sure what date it was done as it doesn't say. Should I ring them up and query them? As it has only done 130k (bought at 105k) and the last 25k has been over 4 years as its had an easy life I'm really shocked.

Edited October 19, 2016 by BlazenR34

[Weaselman]

Yeah something fishy is going on here. The small woodruff key that goes there couldn't cause that kind of damage. Even revving the engine on the limiter and making it come to a dead stop would sheer the key and damage the pulley before the crank itself seeing as its a machined piece and the key isn't.

[BlazenR34]

6 hours ago, Weaselman said:

Yeah something fishy is going on here. The small woodruff key that goes there couldn't cause that kind of damage. Even revving the engine on the limiter and making it come to a dead stop would sheer the key and damage the pulley before the crank itself seeing as its a machined piece and the key isn't.

Yeah i'm seriously starting to believe that when the timing belt routine was done the components weren't put back together correctly. Therefore after a number of thousand km's it has worn the crank down to the point of failure (as otherwise it couldn't have happened). It would have happened sooner if I drove it a lot more during my ownership I reckon. 

Do I have any ground to stand on, on this? Like insurance that could cover me for negligence as it has resulted in complete engine failure or am i stuck in the position i am now with everything on me and it's just bad luck? (just wondering is all) I'm with Just Cars btw and have been the whole time i've had the car.

Edited October 19, 2016 by BlazenR34

[Duncan]

well sort of why I was wondering about the timing belt. Pretty much the only way to do that sort of damage is for the harmonic balancer bolt to be loose resulting in it moving around at 7,500 revs which is not exactly good for the front of the crank. Presumably you heard a noise and had the balancer removed.

Personally I would go and talk to the mechanic who did the timing below, they *may* help out especially by claiming on their own insurance. If they don't and you want to fight you would need at a minimum receipts for the work and an engineer's report linking the damage to a probably loose crank bolt.

And no your car insurance doesn't cover mechanical failures

[89CAL]

Was the keyway for the balancer in?

[GeeDog]

Just now, 89CAL said:

Was the keyway for the balancer in?

I reckon something was in the keyway, otherwise the balancer would turn on the shaft but wouldn't do that damage to the keyway. Maybe they lost the original key, and replaced it with something else that was a loose fit in the keyway.

 

OP did the balancer come off, or what was the symptom that got you to have a look / take it to a mechanic?

[89CAL]

The balancer is basically a press fit. The keyway is mostly to locate it although it does also stop it spinning. If youve ever had to remove one youll know what i mean. Im just curious if they accidentally forgot to put it in.

Your theory that something else that wasnt correct for the job was used is also pretty likely as well

EDIT: On second thought, it does look like something has been in there. Unless it was already damaged last time it was re-installed

[BlazenR34]

Yeah I switched on the engine the other day and heard a tiny knock on the front end. Didn't sound good (very fickle about any noises as you should be with these cars). Rang the mechanics so i can bring it down. Turned it on again the next day to bring it down and the knock was extremely loud. (input swearing) Got it towed and then they discovered the mess.

Yeah the key was in there but they couldn't tell if it was original but it doesn't look like it fit properly from the start otherwise the damage wouldn't have occurred.

Just got off the phone to my mechanic. Told them about the improper fitment and where i stand and he said "Yeah i'm exactly right in what i'm thinking about the previous shops fault but it'll be to hard to prove now as it was so long".

....what a mess. But looks like I'll be going the new engine route. Have to discuss that tomorrow.

I still feel like contacting the shop via email to let them know whats happened to a vehicle they worked on.... what do you guys think?

[89CAL]

Well the worst that can happen is they just say 'not our problem'

[GeeDog]

Was the balancer bolt loose when the mechanic looked at it?

I can't tell from your pics if anything else was damaged. If the crankshaft isn't bent, I think you could get another keyway cut 180 degrees out, and refit the balancer (also 180 degrees out). It wouldn't take much to redo the timing marks on the balancer. The balancer has nothing to do with the cam timing, other than stopping the timing belt drive cog from moving in & out. The only things that keyway does is to locate the balancer so the timing marks are correct, and to stop the balancer turning on the crankshaft. 

[BlazenR34]

The email has been sent to them being as polite as i could!

He didn't say anything about a bolt as yet. Yeah i haven't discussed a re-cut with them. I'm not sure if they 100% know other damage has occurred internally due to the loose fitment over the thousands of km's it has taken to happen though they're suggesting it's a possibility for further problems down the track. Therefore I think that's why they're now suggesting a new-second hand engine. I've currently got a car that i can use for the next month but i still feel time is getting critical to make a decision with work and everything else going on. Bloody hell everything comes in three's haha

Truly appreciate all your responses guys! It's helped a lot!

Edited October 20, 2016 by BlazenR34

[BlazenR34]

On 20/10/2016 at 2:32 PM, GeeDog said:

Was the balancer bolt loose when the mechanic looked at it?

I can't tell from your pics if anything else was damaged. If the crankshaft isn't bent, I think you could get another keyway cut 180 degrees out, and refit the balancer (also 180 degrees out). It wouldn't take much to redo the timing marks on the balancer. The balancer has nothing to do with the cam timing, other than stopping the timing belt drive cog from moving in & out. The only things that keyway does is to locate the balancer so the timing marks are correct, and to stop the balancer turning on the crankshaft. 

I've inquired about this procedure but it looks like the workshop I'm at don't have the time to do it. So I'm currently trying to find a solution. :-(

[tridentt150v]

On ‎20‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 2:32 PM, GeeDog said:

If the crankshaft isn't bent, I think you could get another keyway cut 180 degrees out, and refit the balancer (also 180 degrees out). It wouldn't take much to redo the timing marks on the balancer. The balancer has nothing to do with the cam timing, other than stopping the timing belt drive cog from moving in & out. The only things that keyway does is to locate the balancer so the timing marks are correct, and to stop the balancer turning on the crankshaft. 

This^^^^ or recut the original keyway with a larger unit - but this needs meat and from the pics I can't be sure. Plus you need to machine the HB to suit.