Designing an Entry Turbo kit for v36 @450HP

[mybrains]

Designing an Entry Turbo kit for v36 @450HP

Hi All

I have modded turbo cars myself before on a 200sx but now have the V36/G37 Sedan auto 2012 and wanting a bit more power. NA mods dont cut it. I was looking through the US turbo kits for this car (easy $20K money- as you need to build motor and clutch upgrade tranny on top of kit) and it dawned on me that there may be a place for a basic turbo kit on stock parts. Hear me out before you judge.

The VQ37VHR block stock seems to cope with up to 450Hp so lets set the limit there. also the Auto transmission wont cope with any more than that either. The question is how low can we go with new parts on a turbo kit? low boost so we dont detonate.

So we would need to keep it simple. use existing manifolds and exhaust but add a bit of custom piping from manifolds to single  turbo (like the boosted performance kit with turbo sitting low). add a dump pipe into the stock exhaust. Some high flow cats. Maybe keep stock mufflers depending on the restriction. Yeah, I really do mean cheap.

Uprate the risky items to trigger a lean out like fuel pump and injectors but use cheaper OEM brands, possibly from other cars (repco / bosch). Need to find out what will fit here.  Find a off the shelf front intercooler, nothing fancy as its a single turbo so use basic single plumbing in/out. Keep stock air intakes (this is forced induction after all). Slap on a thick head gasket may be an option to avoid detonation on the high CR this block runs stock and or water injection.  Plumb plastic BOV back into the piping (Im too old to have the sound!) and this is the cheapest way. 

Turbo - what's cheap locally but OK? I wonder if there is OEM in any cars that can be used. The Garrett 3071/76r does seem popular. This is the most expensive bit.  

Uprev tune to map and see if we get 450hp (330kw). Have I missed anything *required?  Thinking maybe even 5K + labour  would be possible

Pete

Edited September 21, 2017 by mybrains
update

[mycarhasposessedme]

Sorry to be so harsh bud, but it really sounds like you don't have a clue what your doing.

For example "as its a single turbo so use basic single plumbing in/out. Keep stock air intakes" erm No.

I think you need to do a bit more research.

5K + labour, I'd like to see that.

[mybrains]

Hi Trevor,  suggest have a look at the Might Mods subaru Gramps build. It will give you ideas and its a fun ride. Shame its not a nissan    same concept - a stock car with hacked on turbo.

 

Re intercooler,  when I built my 200sx (15yrs ago), I bought a truck intercooler, cut it down and made 3 out of it. Bought a lot of silicon bends and used straight pipe inbetween to plumb intercooler. Had to cut a few holes to feed. The only thing I used a shop for was the dyno/remap and that was David from SAS in sydney.  The result was I got the 200 from 100 kw rear  stock engine to 168KW rear wheels @1bar on dyno. Pretty happy and could say I did it myself to my designs. Sure plenty of guys paid a shop to fit brand names for serious $$$ but im a big DIY. 

Re 5k.  Maybe it is a bit low and I need to catch up with inflation. Lets see. The trick to keeping cost down is perform as much of the work yourself and avoid big brand names at all costs.

Pete

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by mybrains
added

[mybrains]

Next step - gather the stock limits.

Block/rings/conrods- consensus is 450-500HP http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/26617-how-much-power-will-stock-internals-hold.html

Injectors - Found this link to orange/brown Denso 8KEDQ injector https://www.z1motorsports.com/fuel-rail-and-injectors/used-nissan/used-vq37vhr-fuel-injector-p-9949.html

I read the stock injectors run 60-70% duty cycle so based on this 30% wiggle room I calc they would max out around 430HP.  From this we need to change them to safely reach 450HP with room. The colour would identify these Denos as the same as side fed S15 @444cc http://www.sr20-forum.com/information-library/166-inj-size-whp-output.html

Also a nice article on injectors here. Mazda RX7/8 13B injectors are an option 550/850cc https://sr20tuning.net/mods/larger-injectors/

7At trans 481HP one user, 490 another  http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/66263-forced-induction-7at-370z-info.html  Trans cooler is only mod

Next the fuel pump....

 

[mycarhasposessedme]

Here you go Champ, right up your alley.

Single Turbo, no brand name parts, just good old fashioned Chinese goodness & just over  $1000au.

I reckon you could build something really great with these parts.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Universal-T3-T4-Turbo-Turbocharger-Kit-Blue-for-350Z-Z33-Nismo-370Z-Z34-G35-G37-/263005348096?hash=item3d3c572100:g:CR0AAOSwH09ZKHXp

Or the Twin Turbo version

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/JDM-SUPER-TWIN-TURBO-KIT-FOR-350Z-370Z-SUPRA-300ZX-3000GT-NSX-GTR-G35-TT-G37-R35-/401365861316?hash=item5d734503c4:g:egYAAOSwggpZb~pR

Edited September 23, 2017 by mycarhasposessedme

[mybrains]

Thanks. Saw them on ebay and was a bit surprised that these even sell. Not really my cup of tea as no idea if that turbo would even hold together 

 

[mycarhasposessedme]

So if you are to, as you say "avoid brand names at all cost", how do you tell which of the non branded parts such as the turbo kits I linked to above are the good ones, & which are the crap ones.

Do they just have lesser known brands on them.

Or do you go cheap but just not the cheapest.

Just asking.

[mybrains]

I try first for OEM jap parts. Like you would get at repco or a wrecker. The trick is working out what's a match - like I found RX7 stock injectors (denso brand in japan - also make HKS !) will fit our motors and come in 850cc. Wont be hard to ring around repco and the likes and price a set. Hell even Mazda dealers may sell them at a good price. Wrecker is an option but not sure I would risk a sticking injector.... Bang...

Some stuff you can make yourself if really keen. When I proposed to cut up a truck intercooler I copped plenty of flack from guys on forums that said truck was crap compared to fancy jap HKS model. Mind you I picked a semi that travels across Australia in 45 degree heat pulling a massive load so heat dissipation was paramount on its core. Got this core for $400 by driving to Wollongong. Some welding (and leak fixing) later and bingo. made 2 more for mates.  

btw. This US kit is LHD and manual only but a good starting point for judging costing. Approx $8650AUD. Look what you get for the bucks !

http://www.the370z.com/members/boosted-performance-page5.html#visitor_messaging

COMP 6267 800hp twin scroll, triple ceramic ball bearing turbo, T4 1.15 a/r turbine housing
-Large vertical flow intercooler (25”x9”x3.5” core)
-750cc Bosch EV14 fuel injectors with plug’n play pig tails (not included)
-340lph fuel pump (support up to 650whp) (not included)
-Fuel pump voltage booster (only standard with this kit)
-Tial Q BOV
-Tial MV-S waste gates
-UpRev tuner with base map (not included)
-NEW upgraded 3" charge pipes
-3” 304 stainless down pipe (built to work with the F.I dual 2.5” exhaust system)
-Tig welded, polished, aluminum intercooler piping
-30 row oil cooler kit with Mocal thermostat
-Stainless braid oil cooler lines for oil cooler -8an
-GTR spark plugs (gapped)
-Air filter
-Stainless T-bolt clamps
-Silcione hoses
-304 stainless steel tig welded exhaust manifold
-304 stainless brackets and hardware
-Drill/tapp/barb for manifold vacuum/boost source
-Crack case breather filters
-Water lines for turbo, with all fittings
-Vaccum hose for wastegates and BOV
-RTV, Teflon tape
-All hardware needed for a coplete install
-Detailed installation manual

He does low volume and nobody has convinced him to do RHD yet (or Auto for that matter). I believe our RHD steering knuckle is in the way so the piping would need to be diverted around it. Somebody here could buy this kit and get a local exhaust shop to modify the pipes at extra cost I expect.

Edited September 23, 2017 by mybrains

[mycarhasposessedme]

Yea, the Boosted Performance kit has been around for quite a while now.

With the newer V2 kit no piping goes through the RHS of the Motor, so no issues with the steering nuckle.

The issue is, he has the turbo mounted on the RHS & the air cleaner sits in where the steering knuckle is.

Sasha will never do an Auto as there is simply not enough room for the Turbo with the pan from the trans.

His earlier 350Z kits had the Turbo mounted behind the Trans where there is more room if it were an Auto.

If you are really wanting to do this on a tight budget, have you considered using stock R35 GTR Turbos with a Manifold adapter plate.

Stock parts can be had very cheap as there is no market for them with the GTR Guys.

With work, you can use the Intercoolers, turbo's, injectors, most of the Piping.

HK Power in Germany have been doing this for a few years now & recently a fellow on The370Z did his own version that worked well.

P.S. most people on here are aware of this info, but good luck with what you are attempting, I still really feel you are not aware of complexity & true costs of what you are trying to do.

Have you considered a Used Stillen supercharger Kit from the US, they have come a long way in regard to performance & reliability with the A2A kit.

I can put you onto a Guy who will be selling one in around 6 months in Melbourne if you are interested.

 

 

 

[Ben C34]

Rx7 injectors are shit. Keep that in mind.

[mybrains]

Thanks Trevor, really good info. I started off looking at GTM and Vortech super kits (was a Z up for sale on gold coast with Vortech for 20K )when I got the G37. True its the easiest way to some bolt on power without the down side of extra heat in engine bay. 

However I like the Lysholm screws more - much better low torque. These newer belt driven turbos (lol) take too long to spool up and sound kinda weird to me. There is a cheap ($350US wrecker/ebay) Lysholm super around that not many know about (google mazda millenia/Eunos 800M). https://www.ebay.com/sch/items/?_nkw=Mazda+Millenia+Lysholm+Twin+Screw+Supercharger+2+3L&_sacat=&_ex_kw=&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_sop=12&_fpos=&_fspt=1&_sadis=&LH_CAds=&rmvSB=true  

Re the auto trans pan in the way of the V2 boosted kit. I wonder if the stock pan is modifiable (/ replaceable) to allow passing of the pipes - Has anybody tried?

 

Ben - RX7 injectors I found looked like standard Denso side mounts used by Nissan and Mazda. Can you clarify why they are bad - what experiences did you have?

   

Edited September 24, 2017 by mybrains

[mycarhasposessedme]

1 hour ago, mybrains said:

Re the auto trans pan in the way of the V2 boosted kit. I wonder if the stock pan is modifiable (/ replaceable) to allow passing of the pipes - Has anybody tried

No Mate, its simply not possible. unless you can cut the valve body in half.

As far as your Mazda Lysholm screw goes, there would be sfa chance of getting that to fit with the available space, its simply the wrong shape.

Whether or not its flow delivery is spec'd right for this this engine too is a whole other kettle of fish.

Your comment on the Vortech kinda worries me too.

Over the years I have seen some pretty decent custom single turbo setups on this platform & even custom twins, but trust me they weren't cheap, which is why they actually worked so well. 

Unfortunately with this platform its more about whats possible, than what you personally think is the best option.

Pretty much every scenario you can come up with ,someone has considered it before & decided against it. 

You are not going to find some magic silver bullet idea to do any sort of decent custom setup without an absolute f**k load of time & money to throw at it.

You also have to consider the effect on the reliability of your engine with something that has been cobbled together, there is much more to this than simply having a way to get compressed air into the engine.

I have spent my life time doing this sort of crap & i'm nearly 60, trust me, been there done that.

On the other hand nothing would make me happier than if you could build a $5000 Turbo kit for your Car, do it & prove me wrong, i'll me the first to shake your hand.

 

 

[mybrains]

Shame, thought we could solve the auto issue with that kit. Agree the v36 platform seems quite a pain to mod compared to my old 200sx. PS i'm 52 and have always loved the challenge of engineering- but I also know when to give up if just too hard. Also don't like throwing $$ into a car  that actually devalues it  (any turbo/super mods have this affect on a NA car). 

I do have a wild plan B - and possibly something most people on here have not thought about. I noted the next gen infiniti have started turning up at jap wreckers (in japan) and includes a VQ35 hybrid. The 100KW motor is built into the front of the 7AT gearbox..... hmmm......you see where I am going with this. No idea if it would bolt straightup but cant be half as hard as the turbo options. Also battery pack goes in the boot and adds weight. Side effect is 245kw _> 345kw with linear torque from 0 rpm. Also better economy when tooting around town. Most difficult bit would be building/programming  an ECU daughterboard to control motor for acceleration and retro breaking. No idea how the RTA would handle this mod also as its uncharted water (batterys, high voltage). I expect its ok  as long as an (electrical) engineer signs off. I would contact some EV modders as they also have this need,    

https://www.partrequest.com/auto-parts-detail/14-15-infiniti-q50-sport-hybrid-oem-7-speed-automatic-transmission-q50s-331988709493
 

Edited September 24, 2017 by mybrains

[mybrains]

What experiences do people have with the Borg Warner integrated wastegate turbos? Used in aam RHD kit

http://aamcompetition.com/i-24074944-aam-competition-rhd-infiniti-g37-twin-turbo-system.html

http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/1145-aam-vq37-twin-turbo-kit.html

I hate to think what this kit wouild cost delivered (10KUSD =14KAUD + +shipping+customs). It must be like 20K to door. But the turbo may be idea for a local single under the car job.

 

[mybrains]

Further to this, seems one turbo kit has worked with the transmission limitation and found room for one pipe. This is the 5AT, and I dont know if 7AT is bigger. Might get under the car and have a look.  

https://sohomotorsports.com/automatic-350z-soho-motorsports-single-turbo-kit-install/

 

[shadow85]

Hey fellas, interesting thread here. I am currently having the AAM Competition TT kit fitted to my Z. Really wish there was peeps down here who could make a full single or Twin Turbo kit for our VQ37s, could have saved shit loads rather than shipping everything from the states.

[Regan9415]

On 1/27/2018 at 12:32 AM, shadow85 said:

Hey fellas, interesting thread here. I am currently having the AAM Competition TT kit fitted to my Z. Really wish there was peeps down here who could make a full single or Twin Turbo kit for our VQ37s, could have saved shit loads rather than shipping everything from the states.

What's the cost on that kit fully installed and driving? 

[shadow85]

On 5/16/2019 at 11:36 PM, Regan9415 said:

What's the cost on that kit fully installed and driving? 

Hey mate, let me explain to you, that doing this build was in no way cheap! The cost ended up being ludacris!

Getting the kit+all the supporting mods (exhaust system, fuel system, pump, injectors, other bits n pieces, + a new quaife diff) was already close to the $25K+ mark.

 

And then after all the trouble fitting the kit because it required so much modification to fit on a RHD veichle etc etc, all the teething issues, all the tuning issues, 15+ months later, I have finally got the car properly working and running well at 340 rwkw.

 

But the cost was about $45K+ parts n labor! If i knew this, I wouldn;t have ventured into this platform and just chose something else that is more supported.

 

It could be done cheaper in NSW or VIC, I am sure, but because I am in SA I was the guinea pig and payed dearly!

[DashyyPC]

8 minutes ago, shadow85 said:

Hey mate, let me explain to you, that doing this build was in no way cheap! The cost ended up being ludacris!

Getting the kit+all the supporting mods (exhaust system, fuel system, pump, injectors, other bits n pieces, + a new quaife diff) was already close to the $25K+ mark.

 

And then after all the trouble fitting the kit because it required so much modification to fit on a RHD veichle etc etc, all the teething issues, all the tuning issues, 15+ months later, I have finally got the car properly working and running well at 340 rwkw.

 

But the cost was about $45K+ parts n labor! If i knew this, I wouldn;t have ventured into this platform and just chose something else that is more supported.

 

It could be done cheaper in NSW or VIC, I am sure, but because I am in SA I was the guinea pig and payed dearly!

Thats unlucky :l 

My friend got a 09 TT z for 25k with only 100,000 kms on the motor. jst needed a retune. sitting on 430whp

Theres a few TT's in AU at the moment for about 38-40k.  Judging from your experience i assume you'd recommend to buy one already done or keep it NA?

 

[shadow85]

On 5/22/2019 at 1:19 PM, DashyyPC said:

Thats unlucky :l 

My friend got a 09 TT z for 25k with only 100,000 kms on the motor. jst needed a retune. sitting on 430whp

Theres a few TT's in AU at the moment for about 38-40k.  Judging from your experience i assume you'd recommend to buy one already done or keep it NA?

 

I know which ones you are talking about tbh. Just remember those Zs for sale use the older GTM TT kit, that company has gone under a few years back so you won't get any support for that turbo kit, not to mention it was a bit dated in design.

I went for the AAM competition TT kit, it is the best kit up there with the Fast Intentions kit in terms of reliability/design and efficiency. And they are still supported, so you always have help from the manufacturer. So going for this newer kit, was half the reason I payed dearly for my setup, but it may or may not worth the extra $15K or so it has costed me to have it fitted, not realizing it would cost me alot!

 

If you were to do the build yourself and save the $ on labor, then for sure get a AAM TT or Fast Intentions TT kit. Otherwise, get the GTM TT 370Z going around for $40K or what ever they were. BTW, I am only 1 of 2 in all of Australia who has the AAM Compeition TT kit for the 370Z, and now that it is all finished, it sings wonderfully! 360kw @ wheels on 12 psi and no engine knock according to dyno tuner! Room for more, but im gona leave it here.