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RB26 Water injection - E85 alternative

The-Lowdown.com

By The-Lowdown.com,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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The-Lowdown.com Collaborator

The-Lowdown.com

Posted
Posted

Hi All, 

Keen to discuss water injection set ups as an alternative to E85 on mildly modded GTRs.

I have an R32 GTR with basic bolt ons, -5 turbos making 360kw on pump 98 fuel. The car has been at this power level for 6+ years now and is due for a touch up tune. After chatting with the team at Unigroup they suggested thinking about adding a water injection kit which will deliver good gains.

Internally thee engine is still standard so i don't think i necessarily want to push more power through it but it is quite tempting. Love to hear everyone's thoughts on this technology in a street car? pro's and con's

cheers

 

No Crust Racing Grand Master

No Crust Racing

Posted
Posted (edited)

I looked into this a lot, but for my track car and am going E85 on that instead.

My GTR is also flex.

What do you want to know? 

You will get similar gains to E85, but if you don't want more power and cap it at 360 then all you will achieve is some lower EGTs. You gain very little if any response as it's generally added as you come on boost, where as E85 allows timing to be wound in sooner for more response - which you would want with -5s. 

You can of course spray the WMI sooner, use more of it of course. 

there are lots of good kits but you will want something with anti flow back, low level sensor AND trigger, not just a light actually stop the pump, an ECU that can adjust it's tune on the fly accordingly depending on if the system is working or not (or risk a dead piston) etc etc. 

By the time you do all that, build in failsafes, either buy pre-mix or mix your own water meth solution and carry the extra weight, you can see why E85 wins. 

Results are decent though, but note I am talking about WMI not just Water. Don't bother with just water, for all the effort you go through you might as well add the Meth and get some real gains. Water will help cool the charge and suppress some knock and that's about it. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by ActionDan
Dose Pipe Sutututu Grand Master

Dose Pipe Sutututu

Posted
Posted

-5 on a stock RB26 on 98RON

My advice (if you really want it):

  • move to a modern single turbo, and twin scroll everything
  • bring it to a workshop with half a brain or more, e.g. MRC (personally seen Mark's work and I also hire his dyno to tune myself) or Insight (what others have told me)
  • Go full flex, sensor in the return line
  • WMI is good if you can't get E85 - but E85 hands down, there's no torque spike unlike WMI unless you ramp it in super early but you'll use so much more
  • WMI higher chance of failure, WMI tells ECU it's spraying, but it's not spraying - timing comes in, motor goes bang
  • WMI you need to be sure you're spraying before you add timing, delays = less fun

I'm assuming the car runs a PowerFC. Get some motivation from Motive DVD's R32 GT-R when it was running the GTX3582, will drive better, will do everything better than the gayspec -5.

No Crust Racing Grand Master

No Crust Racing

Posted
Posted

He didn't say he wanted or needed anything he said the workshop suggested water Injection. 

Now if he says it's too laggy, well that's another story and Water Injection won't fix that.

If he says he wants more power and that's all, he can get that with Water Injection or E85 - but should go 85!

If he wants both, he should go a big dirty single ;)
 

Dose Pipe Sutututu Grand Master

Dose Pipe Sutututu

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, ActionDan said:

He didn't say he wanted or needed anything he said the workshop suggested water Injection. 

Now if he says it's too laggy, well that's another story and Water Injection won't fix that.

If he says he wants more power and that's all, he can get that with Water Injection or E85 - but should go 85!

If he wants both, he should go a big dirty single ;)
 

add more camber then, car will feel faster and suit "the low down"

The-Lowdown.com Collaborator

The-Lowdown.com

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks @ActionDan. That's basically what I was after. Understand the benefits of going to a newer single but to be honest I quite enjoy the way it drives on -5s.

@Dose Pipe Sutututu car doesn't need to much more camber... don't let the name fool you. I have a pretty tidy example....

 

IMG_0001.JPG

  • Like 1
No Crust Racing Grand Master

No Crust Racing

Posted
Posted
Thanks [mention=23873]ActionDan[/mention]. That's basically what I was after. Understand the benefits of going to a newer single but to be honest I quite enjoy the way it drives on -5s.
[mention=22311]Dose Pipe Sutututu[/mention] car doesn't need to much more camber... don't let the name fool you. I have a pretty tidy example....
 
IMG_0001.JPG.a3ff8de99388af13b6bb261c65db83a1.JPG
Lol Johnny are you gonna be ok? He likes how it drives on -5s!
Dose Pipe Sutututu Grand Master

Dose Pipe Sutututu

Posted
Posted

Hey some people like lag, and really lazy transient then there are people who don't.

Personal preference at the end of the day.

Also, do you need a 100mm Plazmaman FMIC?

  • 5 weeks later...
RICE RACING Community Regular

RICE RACING

Posted
Posted
On 11/30/2017 at 5:50 PM, The-Lowdown.com said:

Hi All, 

Keen to discuss water injection set ups as an alternative to E85 on mildly modded GTRs.

I have an R32 GTR with basic bolt ons, -5 turbos making 360kw on pump 98 fuel. The car has been at this power level for 6+ years now and is due for a touch up tune. After chatting with the team at Unigroup they suggested thinking about adding a water injection kit which will deliver good gains.

Internally thee engine is still standard so i don't think i necessarily want to push more power through it but it is quite tempting. Love to hear everyone's thoughts on this technology in a street car? pro's and con's

cheers

 

Water Injection: It's the ultimate in internal combustion.

Pro's it works if you enlist the right people who are educated and have the runs on the board with water injection over decades. Best done with full integration into a proven ECU system (Syvecs and Life Racing work the best by a long margin over other pretenders out there). To do a 'proper' water injected car you need to fully integrate it into all engine controls, this will then be seamless in operation for all conditions. It makes your car true street, you can drive it anywhere anytime and in any conditions, not be prisoner to availability or fuel quality, no oil contamination, no injector blocking, no gum build up, no chemical erosion killing engine bearings other metal parts. You have far greater distance between fills, much lower costs to run, less maintenance, just overall a much superior car to one that runs on Ethanol as a main fuel supply alternative.

Con's To do it right it is not cheap, aside from this there are none. Just don't listen to people who are against it cause they a) don't understand or b) have a vested interest in pushing something else.

 

Here you go > http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum2/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=24162

We have another direct port injected animal that has hit the streets!
Syvecs S8 ECU and D5 dash logger
M&W racing CDI system
RICE RACING calibration
Thank you Richard Lamb :)
*fully integrated to engine control strategy* no excuses, no stories, just the fastest cars that work in all conditions! ALL THE TIME!
Q6BnZMm.jpg?1
C6uXxb3.jpg

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