timing chain tensioner wont install

[silviaz]

I am just about to reassemble everything, this is the last thing I need to put on besides the valve cover and just connect a couple of pipes (they are no problem)

 

Here is what I've done so far

 

* Torqued everything to spec such as sprocket bolts, and camshaft bolts

*put in correct angle sensor, it is in perfectly got some photos as well to show bolts are lined up and the marks on the top are lining up

* timing chain is correctly slotted (wasn't previously, but the entire thing should be fine)

 

I can't figure it out, it just won't go in. Here are some photos. I urgently need help. (the 2nd photo is the problem)

[silviaz]

The last picture that you see where the timing chain Is sitting is, is quite tight which I assume is normal but also realized when went to tighten sp rocket that it moved because the yellow mark doesn't line up with the circle. I also saw there are darker links on the chain from what Ive heard, they were supposed to line up with the circles?

[admS15]

Is the tensioner in its fully retracted position  when you are trying to install it? If not, that's your problem. If it is, im not sure what's going on but googling sr20 timing chain tensioner install should find you the info you need.

[silviaz]

39 minutes ago, admS15 said:

Is the tensioner in its fully retracted position  when you are trying to install it? If not, that's your problem. If it is, im not sure what's going on but googling sr20 timing chain tensioner install should find you the info you need.

Hey, yes it is fully retracted and the pin is holding it. Also are my chain links not lined up correctly?

[Rusty Nuts]

Follow the procedure in the workshop manual, guaranteed to work.

get manual,   http://www.eatsleepboost.lt/files/manuals/s14_200sx_sr20det_repair_manual.pdf

[silviaz]

2 hours ago, Rusty Nuts said:

Follow the procedure in the workshop manual, guaranteed to work.

get manual,   http://www.eatsleepboost.lt/files/manuals/s14_200sx_sr20det_repair_manual.pdf

I did man but same thing. I checked the bracket the timing chain sits in is unmovable so it cant push against it. Only thing i can think is sprocket moved slighty when trying to tighten or silver links arent lined up

[silviaz]

8 hours ago, Rusty Nuts said:

Follow the procedure in the workshop manual, guaranteed to work.

get manual,   http://www.eatsleepboost.lt/files/manuals/s14_200sx_sr20det_repair_manual.pdf

I really need help I got the yellow marks i made to line back up but I cant get the silver link to line up I am not sure if i need to turn clockwise until it goes in a circle and it reaches the circle? I am worried it will snap

 

[Rusty Nuts]

Mate, I get the feeling you have not maintained the crank at TDC while you did this work, I have had a quick look at the manual PDF I sent you the link for, and if the silver links are not aligned with the circle marks when you started (hence your yellow marks) then I would suggest you download the manual, remove the harmonic balancer and front cover and start again fresh. You have been struggling with fix since early November, you probably need to get someone knowledgeable in front of this engine to help you.

[Rusty Nuts]

At top Dead Centre there is a gold link on the chain that aligns with a crankshaft mark, until you remove the harmonic balancer and front cover you can not tell if the gold link is aligned at TDC. If you get any part of this timing procedure wrong you will bend a valve or punch a hole in a piston.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Rusty Nuts

[silviaz]

10 hours ago, Rusty Nuts said:

Mate, I get the feeling you have not maintained the crank at TDC while you did this work, I have had a quick look at the manual PDF I sent you the link for, and if the silver links are not aligned with the circle marks when you started (hence your yellow marks) then I would suggest you download the manual, remove the harmonic balancer and front cover and start again fresh. You have been struggling with fix since early November, you probably need to get someone knowledgeable in front of this engine to help you.

Hey i did put it on tdc before i removed camshaft and all of that for first time. Definently did. I am gonna try again just with the silver links marking i sae a video on youtube. If not i hope i dont have to remove the engine from the car.

 

Thanks also for checking that out for me.

Edited December 11, 2019 by silviaz

[Rusty Nuts]

Mate, I would not use those silver links as a reference without knowing that the gold link is lined up, if you were on TDC when you made those yellow marks then the gold link is NOT in the correct place or the chain has kinked back on itself. This whole drama started with a broken rocker arm - was the timing chain out of sequence then???? Did it cause the original breakage???? You really really need to take the front cover off and establish where the gold link is. I know you are keen to get driving again but if you don't fix this properly more damage is going to occur. Just trying to help you mate, Slow and steady will win this race. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Rusty Nuts

[silviaz]

12 hours ago, Rusty Nuts said:

Mate, I would not use those silver links as a reference without knowing that the gold link is lined up, if you were on TDC when you made those yellow marks then the gold link is NOT in the correct place or the chain has kinked back on itself. This whole drama started with a broken rocker arm - was the timing chain out of sequence then???? Did it cause the original breakage???? You really really need to take the front cover off and establish where the gold link is. I know you are keen to get driving again but if you don't fix this properly more damage is going to occur. Just trying to help you mate, Slow and steady will win this race. 

Your right i know but its just thats going to be a nightmare of a job. And im just hoping that new rocker arm fixes the compression. I was gonna get a mobile a mechanic to check it out to see if it was something simple.

 

I wanted to try do it in the cheap if i can get my endoscope camers down there to see if the gold link is there.

 

Once i turn the engine clockwise wont it move anyways?

[Rusty Nuts]

But, if you were at TDC your yellow marks show that the chain is two links out already. The only way you can do it now is old school roller pin counting using your yellow marks, the balancer marks and the exhaust cam mark ending up vertical in the 12 o'clock position, I have done it this way with a twin cam Alfa Romeo. You will have to install the tensioner properly first to rotate the engine, to get the tensioner to insert you need more slack on the chain on that side, you need to rotate the inlet cam anticlockwise to remove the slack in the chain between the cam sprockets without moving the crankshaft from its TDC position. Once you have the chain tensioned properly there are a few know dimensions which will tell you if the timing is right.

1. you have a TDC mark on the crank pulley

2. you have a yellow mark on the exhaust cam sprocket

3. there are 48 roller pins between the TDC link and your yellow mark link.

Once you have identified the link by counting 48 roller pins from your yellow mark, You start by rotating the engine until this TDC link is positioned at the mark on the exhaust sprocket and the exhaust mark is perfectly vertical(12 o,clock) then rotate the crank clockwise until the yellow exhaust mark is perfectly vertical (12o'clock) and then check the position of your balancer mark, if all is correct the balancer mark will line up. Take a look at page EM-24 in the manual I posted up, there is a picture of the chain that will help. I hope I have explained that well enough, if you have any questions just ask.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Rusty Nuts

[Rusty Nuts]

10 hours ago, Rusty Nuts said:

But, if you were at TDC your yellow marks show that the chain is two links out already. The only way you can do it now is old school roller pin counting using your yellow marks, the balancer marks and the exhaust cam KEY ending up vertical in the 12 o'clock position, I have done it this way with a twin cam Alfa Romeo. You will have to install the tensioner properly first to rotate the engine, to get the tensioner to insert you need more slack on the chain on that side, you need to rotate the inlet cam anticlockwise to remove the slack in the chain between the cam sprockets without moving the crankshaft from its TDC position. Once you have the chain tensioned properly there are a few know dimensions which will tell you if the timing is right.

1. you have a TDC mark on the crank pulley

2. you have a yellow mark on the exhaust cam sprocket

3. there are 48 roller pins between the TDC link and your yellow mark link.

Once you have identified the link by counting 48 roller pins from your yellow mark, You start by rotating the engine until this TDC link is positioned at the yellow mark on the exhaust sprocket and the exhaust KEY is perfectly vertical(12 o,clock) then rotate the crank clockwise until the yellow mark lines up and exhaust KEY is perfectly vertical (12o'clock) and then check the position of your balancer mark, if all is correct the balancer mark will line up. Take a look at page EM-24 in the manual I posted up, there is a picture of the chain that will help. I hope I have explained that well enough, if you have any questions just ask.

Edited 9 hours ago by Rusty Nuts

Please note changes, in capitals, use exhaust KEY mark not sprocket mark. 

[silviaz]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nuts said:

Please note changes, in capitals, use exhaust KEY mark not sprocket mark. 

Thanks a bunch again man. The instructions are a bit over my head but ill try figure it out.

[Rusty Nuts]

The very best of luck from me mate, hope you are driving really soon.

[silviaz]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nuts said:

The very best of luck from me mate, hope you are driving really soon.

Thanks. Ive read once u turn the crank the silver links wont line up anyways so this will be interesting lol.

[silviaz]

3 hours ago, Rusty Nuts said:

The very best of luck from me mate, hope you are driving really soon.

Hard to follow these instructions cause cam caps are off and sprocket bolts are loose.

Im worried if i keeping torquing and untorquing will break them.  There is lots of slack now cause the bolts of sprockets are loose.

You said tdc link im assuming this is the yellow link where the crank shaft is? Hard to count if i dont have the cover off.

 

Or is this whole thing assuming i have the cover?

So many variables to think about. Could i pay u for a skype video call lol or something? If not all cool just running out of options as all mechanics ive called are busy.

[Rusty Nuts]

Mate, you said you were confident you were at TDC so you need to reassemble cam caps and tighten sprocket bolts etc so you can tension the timing chain, and you have to work off your own yellow marks not the silver and gold links. The manual states that when installing the exhaust camshaft, the sprocket key (actually a dowel) is in the 12 o'clock position at TDC. That was what I was referring to.

You MUST get the tensioner installed before you go any further. You need to be able to rotate the crankshaft and camshafts.

[silviaz]

11 minutes ago, Rusty Nuts said:

Mate, you said you were confident you were at TDC so you need to reassemble cam caps and tighten sprocket bolts etc so you can tension the timing chain, and you have to work off your own yellow marks not the silver and gold links. The manual states that when installing the exhaust camshaft, the sprocket key (actually a dowel) is in the 12 o'clock position at TDC. That was what I was referring to.

You MUST get the tensioner installed before you go any further. You need to be able to rotate the crankshaft and camshafts.

I see. thats my challenge cause the tensioner wont go in. But ill see what i can do. Cheers