Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Hello! 
 

I have decided to run a flex fuel setup on my RB25DET. The engine is fully built with forged internals and GTX3076R turbo. To increase HP, I’ve decided to change my fuel system to flex fuel to enable e85. However, I’m new to this e85 world and would like to be informed correctly for my setup. I’m currently pushing 400HP at 17PSI. 

What fuel pump should I run?

what fuel injectors should I use?

what sensor should I use for e85 and regular octane detection?

 

thank you! 

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/481241-flex-fuel-setup-for-rb-in-s13/
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Ben C34 said:

Surely this info is easy to find.. What have you figured out so far?

 

Or you just chasing complete spoon feeding?

Well, I have found flex fuel fuel pumps and injectors, however, I don’t know much about brands. 
 

For example, I found an AEM flex fuel pump at 340lph. Is that a good fuel pump and enough lph? I currently have a 550 walbro and 740cc deatschwerks my tuner suggested 2 years ago. 
Part Number: 3C1450

Or 

a Bosh 040 in tank fuel pump. 

For injectors I have found:

dynamic 1000cc fuel injectors  or are my current injectors okay to keep?

 

Are these good brands and ratings for 600hp, or does anyone have recommended parts? 


thank you! 

 

 

 

my RB25DET NEO has the following spec:-

400hp on 98 at 18PSI
500hp on E85 at 23PSI

Gtx 3076 .82r garrett with speedflow fittings and braided lines
ATP catch can with speedflow -10 braided lines and fittings
50mm gen V turbosmart external waste gate
Spitfire coils
Custom 3 inch dump into 4 inch HKS exhaust
ARP head studs 
Bosch 1250cc injectors 
Turbosmart fuel reg
Turbosmart fuel filter
Walbro 460l fuel pump with relay
Haltech elite 2500

1 hour ago, DaymoR32 said:

my RB25DET NEO has the following spec:-

400hp on 98 at 18PSI
500hp on E85 at 23PSI

Gtx 3076 .82r garrett with speedflow fittings and braided lines
ATP catch can with speedflow -10 braided lines and fittings
50mm gen V turbosmart external waste gate
Spitfire coils
Custom 3 inch dump into 4 inch HKS exhaust
ARP head studs 
Bosch 1250cc injectors 
Turbosmart fuel reg
Turbosmart fuel filter
Walbro 460l fuel pump with relay
Haltech elite 2500

 

40 minutes ago, robbo_rb180 said:

Easiest way would be :

Walbro 460/525l

Idx1300 injectors

Quality fuel reg

Continental ethanol (also does temp) 

 

Plenty of head room and should idle nicely 

 

Hello! 

Thank you for your input. I think I’ll combine your suggestions and do:

525lph walbro fuel pump 

idx1300cc injectors 

turbosmart fuel regulator /filter 

continental sensor 

 

Additionally, I topped out at 400hp flat due to restricted air flow, so I’m increasing my .62 A/R turbo to a .94. Is this a good idea to get more airflow? 

Stepping up to a bigger rear housing will help but depends how far you want to move the power band up the rev range a. 82 is a good point for response and power be interesting to see how a bigger housing would go. 

11 minutes ago, robbo_rb180 said:

Stepping up to a bigger rear housing will help but depends how far you want to move the power band up the rev range a. 82 is a good point for response and power be interesting to see how a bigger housing would go. 

My concern is getting too big of an AR. My .63 is suffocating, so a .94 seems promising. However, would it be too much to still have a esponsive turbo? Could I use a 40-50 shot of NOS to help the turbo spool quicker?  I’m aiming for 600hp. 

My idea is to do flex fuel and increase turbo AR. I have a fully built engine making 400whp, but it’s not where I want it yet. 

That's fair enough, I know how my sil80 went with Aussie 500hp at the wheels and was very linear with a built Rb25, 6boost manifold and gt3076. 82(2008 spec) and e85. 

If just chasing a power figure adjust baro, temp correction and ramp rate on the Dyno ?  

 

0.94 A/R is quite a large housing for a 3076 sized turbo and will certainly negatively impact on response. 0.82 is already noticeably less nice than 0.63.

Shall we take it that being a 240SX that you're in the US? How then should we interpret the power numbers that you mention? What sort of dyno? Is it a typical high reading US dyno? Or more realistic? The reason I ask is that this post in the RB turbo dyno thread is a good place to draw some idea of what the turbo is capable of. That one had a 0.83 housing and was on E85, making 336rwkW (~450 rwHP), on 19 psi. Depending on how optimistic your dyno is will tell you something about where you sit now and what gain you might get from (a) the bigger housing and (b) going to E85.

Hard to know how much extra power you get from changing to E85 as a blanket rule, but if you apply a 20% discount from the power figure in that post, you get down to ~360rwHP. That's a lower number than you're reporting, on a smaller housing, with lower boost, and no E85.

 

  • Like 1
2 hours ago, robbo_rb180 said:

That's fair enough, I know how my sil80 went with Aussie 500hp at the wheels and was very linear with a built Rb25, 6boost manifold and gt3076. 82(2008 spec) and e85. 

If just chasing a power figure adjust baro, temp correction and ramp rate on the Dyno ?  

 

 

1 hour ago, GTSBoy said:

0.94 A/R is quite a large housing for a 3076 sized turbo and will certainly negatively impact on response. 0.82 is already noticeably less nice than 0.63.

Shall we take it that being a 240SX that you're in the US? How then should we interpret the power numbers that you mention? What sort of dyno? Is it a typical high reading US dyno? Or more realistic? The reason I ask is that this post in the RB turbo dyno thread is a good place to draw some idea of what the turbo is capable of. That one had a 0.83 housing and was on E85, making 336rwkW (~450 rwHP), on 19 psi. Depending on how optimistic your dyno is will tell you something about where you sit now and what gain you might get from (a) the bigger housing and (b) going to E85.

Hard to know how much extra power you get from changing to E85 as a blanket rule, but if you apply a 20% discount from the power figure in that post, you get down to ~360rwHP. That's a lower number than you're reporting, on a smaller housing, with lower boost, and no E85.

 

Hello Robbo_rb180,

I do want a a relatively linear trend throughout my power-band, and it sounds like your build was just perfect! To this day, I’m still thoroughly impressed with your tuning ability! 
 

Hello GTSBoy,

Would a better alternative is to go with another turbo than swapping my housing to a .94? The dyno is a typical high reading dyno. I’ll be sure to check out those threads to become better informed  

 

 

Thanks Eric. Maybe worth stepping up to a 3576 or 3584 if wanting the power. Check out @Dose Pipe Sutututu build page 72 has good data and setup if wanting good power with response, no need for nitrous on your current set-up might just need rear housing, setup close loop boost control on the link and more timing with the e85. 

 

  • Like 1
7 hours ago, robbo_rb180 said:

Thanks Eric. Maybe worth stepping up to a 3576 or 3584 if wanting the power. Check out @Dose Pipe Sutututu build page 72 has good data and setup if wanting good power with response, no need for nitrous on your current set-up might just need rear housing, setup close loop boost control on the link and more timing with the e85. 

 

Hello,

I’ve researched quite a few threads and read through page 72 and everyone prefers the gtx3576r over the 3076r. It produces more power with a smaller AR due to the bigger turbine. I also read that a .82 housing will be about as big a gtx3076r housing should be before it becomes laggy and unproductive. For the time being, I’ll upgrade to a .82 housing and get a front mount intercooler (mine is pretty small, 24x12x4.5). 
 

I was reading a forum and a guy said: 

“Im running the GTX30R with .82 Tial housing. Spool is very quick, awesome turbo for the street.” Then a dyno graph was posted. 
 

Do exhaust housing brands affect the flow of the turbo? Tial is famous for their v-band flanges, are they better to regular T3/T4? 
 

I’m currently planning for:

.82 tial housing (thermo coating the housing)

525lph walbro fuel pump 

idx1300cc injectors 

turbosmart fuel regulator /filter 

continental sensor

76mm FMIC (still need to do more research on this)

 

 

CCC71F47-1A7E-4EF5-9408-6DC60E088019.jpeg

Hello I am no dead, but my car is lol...

Whatever you do, go get a twin scroll housing, and a proper twin scroll manifold.

The GTX3576 Gen 2 with the 1.01 divided rear comes on full noise by about 4500rpm (that's 2 bar of boost) and makes well over 1 bar of boost by 4000rpm (confirmed once I put on the new FMIC as the old one was leaking).

That graph you've posted looks laggy.

 

43 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Hello I am no dead, but my car is lol...

Whatever you do, go get a twin scroll housing, and a proper twin scroll manifold.

The GTX3576 Gen 2 with the 1.01 divided rear comes on full noise by about 4500rpm (that's 2 bar of boost) and makes well over 1 bar of boost by 4000rpm (confirmed once I put on the new FMIC as the old one was leaking).

That graph you've posted looks laggy.

 

I have heard about twin scroll setups but I have a question, does the exhaust manifold require two wastegates? 
 

theoretically, if I go with a twin scroll setup, I’m currently running a 44mm wastegate. Would I neede a second 44mm wastegate to go to the other side? 

Yes, and no. To not ruin the split pulse design, you have to make sure that both halves of the manifold have equal access to wastegating and will not interfere with each other. The best way to be sure of that is to have 2x wastegates with no communication between them upstream of their seats. If you have 1x 44, then you wouldn't need 2x 44s. You could downsize.

It is possible to design a split pulse manifold with a common wastegate outlet. Obviously there needs to be complete isolation of the two branches feeding the 'gate, and there should be a divider all the way up to the flat of the 'gate valve. This will provide sufficient isolation between the halves of the manifold....up until the 'gate cracks open. Then, sadly, there will be communication between the two halves of the manifold and pressure pulses will "leak". This is less of a problem than it sounds though, because the whole split pulse thing is more important when trying to spool the turbo than when making set boost. Split pulse housing/manifold doesn't really make any more power than a single inlet turbo does. it just makes it more responsive.

48 minutes ago, Eric0 said:

I have heard about twin scroll setups but I have a question, does the exhaust manifold require two wastegates? 
 

theoretically, if I go with a twin scroll setup, I’m currently running a 44mm wastegate. Would I neede a second 44mm wastegate to go to the other side? 

Sinco make these pretty sexual manifolds (this is mine below).

As you can see each pulse is separate to the seat of the gate, other so called split pulse manifolds end up merging the pulses together which in theory wouldn't perform as well as this.

I run a 50mm gate and it controls boost very well, I can go from 0.5 bar to 2 bar using a 4 port solenoid.

20190216_104122.thumb.jpg.c9d078d63f5777a634c1692313ee47f7.jpgIMG_20190216_105214_821.thumb.jpg.7537125fbde1ddc56109e0f74d51898b.jpg20190302_190237.thumb.jpg.7a05e120b4c9660b40d8cc9faef9ed1a.jpg20190421_151902.thumb.jpg.67a49720ce4c78adccdd2cde6d1373a4.jpg

  • Like 1
4 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Sinco make these pretty sexual manifolds (this is mine below).

As you can see each pulse is separate to the seat of the gate, other so called split pulse manifolds end up merging the pulses together which in theory wouldn't perform as well as this.

I run a 50mm gate and it controls boost very well, I can go from 0.5 bar to 2 bar using a 4 port solenoid.

20190216_104122.thumb.jpg.c9d078d63f5777a634c1692313ee47f7.jpgIMG_20190216_105214_821.thumb.jpg.7537125fbde1ddc56109e0f74d51898b.jpg20190302_190237.thumb.jpg.7a05e120b4c9660b40d8cc9faef9ed1a.jpg20190421_151902.thumb.jpg.67a49720ce4c78adccdd2cde6d1373a4.jpg

Oh man!! That is super funny to describe an exhaust manifold in that manner!! Haha, what’s a good laugh. 
 

Those are pricy! I’m seeing one for $1042. Plus $400 for the twin scroll housing, that puts me at 500- 800 more and I can just get a GTX3576r turbo and keep my current setup. Is a twin scroll setup worth it? 
 

GTX3076R .82AR Twin Scroll with Since twin scroll manifold 

~1600

OR

GTX3576r .62AR and keep my single scroll exhaust manifold 

~1900

 

I will also be purchasing:

525lph walbro fuel pump 

idx1300cc injectors 

turbosmart fuel regulator /filter 

continental sensor

76mm FMIC 

 

goal 500+ but hopefully 600hp, I’m currently at 400hp pump gas

 

3 hours ago, Eric0 said:

Is a twin scroll setup worth it? 

If you're after low down, good spool, good mid range power then yes. Also depends how the car is used.

If it's for drags, drifting or roll racing then perhaps it's not worth the investment but if it's used for circuit racing or driving through windy roads then 100% worth the extra money.

0.62 is too small.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Place the new daughterboard in the case and mount it using the 3 small black rivets provided, and reconnect the 3 factory ribbon cables to the new board Then, use the 3 piggyback cables from the daughterboard into the factory board on top (there are stand offs in the case to keep them apart. and remember to reconnect the antenna and rear cover fan wires. 1 screw to hold the motherboard in place. Before closing the case, make a hole in the sticker covering a hole in the case and run the cable for the android unit into the plug there. The video forgot this step, so did I, so will you probably. Then redo the 4 screws on back, 2 each top and bottom, 3 each side and put the 2 brackets back on.....all ready to go and not that tricky really.      
    • Onto the android unit. You need to remove the top screen because there is a daughterboard to put inside the case. Each side vent pops out from clips; start at the bottom and carefully remove upwards (use a trim remover tool to avoid breaking anything). Then the lower screen and controls come out, 4 screws, a couple of clips (including 3 flimsy ones at the top) and 3 plugs on the rear. Then the upper screen, 4 screws and a bunch of plugs and she is out. From there, remove the mounting brackets (2 screws each), 4 screws on the rear, 2 screws top and bottom and 3 screws holding in the small plates on each side. When you remove the back cover (tight fit), watch out for the power cable for the fan, I removed it so I could put the back aside. The mainboard is held in by 1 screw in the middle, 1 aerial at the top and 3 ribbon cables. If you've ever done any laptop stuff the ribbon cables are OK to work with, just pop up the retainer and they slide out. If you are not familiar just grab a 12 year old from an iphone factory, they will know how it works The case should now look like this:
    • Switching the console was tricky. First there were 6 screws to remove, and also the little adapter loom and its screws had to come out. Also don't forget to remove the 2 screws holding the central locking receiver. Then there are 4 clips on either side....these were very tight in this case and needed careful persuading with a long flat screw driver....some force required but not enough to break them...this was probably the fiddliest part of the whole job. In my case I needed both the wiring loom and the central locking receiver module to swap across to the new one. That was it for the console, so "assembly is the reverse of disassembly"
    • But first....while I was there, I also swapped across the centre console box for the other style where the AV inputs don't intrude into the (very limited !) space.  Part# was 96926-4GA0A, 284H3-4GA0B, 284H3-4GA0A. (I've already swapped the top 12v socket for a USB bulkhead in this pic, it fit the hole without modification:) Comparison of the 2: Basically to do the console you need to remove the DS and PS side console trim (they slide up and back, held in by clips only) Then remove the back half of the console top trim with the cupholders, pops up, all clips again but be careful at the front as it is pretty flimsy. Then slide the shifter boot down, remove the spring clip, loose it forever somewhere in the car the pull the shift knob off. Remove the tiny plastic piece on DS near "P" and use something thin and long (most screwdrivers won't fit) to push down the interlock and put the shifter down in D for space. There is one screw at the front, then the shifter surround and ashtray lift up. There are 3 or 4 plugs underneath and it is off. Next is the rear cover of the centre console; you need to open the console lid, pop off the trim covering the lid hinge and undo the 2rd screw from the driver's side (the rest all need to come out later so you can do them all now and remove the lid) Then the rear cover unclips (6 clips), start at the top with a trim tool pulling backwards. Once it is off there are 2 screws facing rearwards to remove (need a short phillips for these) and you are done with the rear of the console. There are 4 plugs at the A/V box to unclip Then there are 2 screws at the front of the console, and 2 clips (pull up and back) and the console will come out.
    • So, a bit of a side trip, but one that might be interesting for people with JDM cars and japanese head units. I know @Pac previously posted about a carplay/android auto adapter he installed which used the AUX input, and @V35_Paul put in one of the Tesla style units that replace both screens. The option I went with was a Lsait LLT-YF-VER5.87_2 (https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Lsailt-8GB-Android-Multimedia-Interface-for_1601187633672.html). Price was $1,150 for a single unit although they are much cheaper if you are willing to buy 2....$857ea. Make you you get the version 2 not version 1, it is faster and has a better UI - this is the manufacturer listing: http://www.lsailt.com/product/348.html. BTW if you've never bought from Alibaba before, don't be concerned....these guys can't stay in business unless they are responsive, ship fast etc, they were excellent (probably faster shipping than most local places) So, this was my task for a lazy Sat afternoon....looks complex but was all done in a few hours (it probably helps that I had some of it apart before so it was a bit familiar). I also decided to add a HD USB drive recorded at the same time and the unit also supports an aftermarket reverse cam (if you don't want to retain factory) and also AV in and HDMI out It looks much worse than it is, in fact in was genuinely all plug and play (no custom wiring at all). This video was pretty good (skipped a few steps), unfortunately they are an Aussie seller but no longer sell this unit (I guess Carplay/AA adapters are easier to install and much cheaper) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5hJfYOB8Dg
×
×
  • Create New...