Rb26 setup - power and injectors size

[joshuaho96]

3 hours ago, reallyspeedly said:

Yeah, i was sitting here and realise that. Well this car got really shitty.. wrong turbo setup, wrong pistons, ecu, etc etc..

 

i guess i have to ask the engine builder about this, cause for some reason he installed them and this guy is really good with what he's doing. 
 

It's "wrong" by the standard of what the latest engines are doing. 10 years ago your setup was best practice. Most likely your engine builder/tuner just sticks to what they know and haven't bothered to try anything different since then.

I am also still not sold on single turbos being the "correct" setup for all situations. Admittedly -5s are about the power level where they don't make sense anymore.

[reallyspeedly]

On 11/01/2023 at 9:04 PM, GTSBoy said:

Just go straight for 1000cc Bosch ID14s from somewhere reputable. A ~340L/h TI pump would be fine. Wired properly, of course.

Not a lot of fuel pumps in stock. Walbro GST520 is an option i got, but dont know anything about walbro fuel pumps, if they are good or bad.

[GTSBoy]

Walbro is TI.

[Murray_Calavera]

8 hours ago, joshuaho96 said:

It's "wrong" by the standard of what the latest engines are doing. 10 years ago your setup was best practice. Most likely your engine builder/tuner just sticks to what they know and haven't bothered to try anything different since then.

I am also still not sold on single turbos being the "correct" setup for all situations. Admittedly -5s are about the power level where they don't make sense anymore.

Can you think of a scenario where twins out perform a modern single?

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

3 hours ago, Murray_Calavera said:

Can you think of a scenario where twins out perform a modern single?

Yeah, of course. In the inefficiency department.

[reallyspeedly]

22 hours ago, djr81 said:

Turbos are fine, just a bit old school as the hipsters have diluted their gtr purity and gone for singles. They are still good units, however and the blokes with ponytails and beige Volvo dailies can get stuffed.

‘The ecu is a good ecu. You just need a good tuna to tune it. My point wasn’t to put down the setup just to highlight you need someone familiar with rb’s and their idiosyncrasies.

.3:1 isn’t earth shattering on the cr. Certainly nothing E85 won’t compensate for in spades if you go that way.

So yeah don’t get negative about it. It will work fine and be loads of fun. FWIW I’ve got -5 turbos and a Link ecu.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and information. 

[joshuaho96]

14 hours ago, Murray_Calavera said:

Can you think of a scenario where twins out perform a modern single?

I can't give you a scenario where twins outperform a single but a local owner went from GT-SS turbos to GTX3576R gen 2 and the results were nowhere near what Motive claimed, which was the same power as -7s down low but 400+ kW up top with a GTX3582R. He lost power between 2000 and ~4200 rpm but gained power from there. I have no idea why their results were so different but it definitely was not due to cheaping out on parts. If anyone does have a good explanation I'm curious to know. Even if you want to significantly increase power there's still a lot of room for improvement in the factory piping. HKS just showed off a seemingly near-final redesign of the factory intake piping from airbox to intercooler inlet that resolves a lot of the basic issues with the OEM piping:

[reallyspeedly]

23 minutes ago, joshuaho96 said:

I can't give you a scenario where twins outperform a single but a local owner went from GT-SS turbos to GTX3576R gen 2 and the results were nowhere near what Motive claimed, which was the same power as -7s down low but 400+ kW up top with a GTX3582R. He lost power between 2000 and ~4200 rpm but gained power from there. I have no idea why their results were so different but it definitely was not due to cheaping out on parts. If anyone does have a good explanation I'm curious to know. Even if you want to significantly increase power there's still a lot of room for improvement in the factory piping. HKS just showed off a seemingly near-final redesign of the factory intake piping from airbox to intercooler inlet that resolves a lot of the basic issues with the OEM piping:

This is really intressting. There is alot of factors that play along here in these systems

Even that Motive did this research and he seemed very convinced that Single out runs a twin setup, there could be things that they did not think of. 

But sure, turbos today have gone along way foward in technology and the latest garrett will probably peform greater than 2 of their first garrett models. 

,

[reallyspeedly]

Okey, i found some parts now. 

BOSCH 980cc EV14, will these be good enough as someone recommened here before? The tuner recommened Injector dynamic cause then i could go a bit bigger and they would still be a bit easier to tune. But the ID1050X - ID1200X etc.. costs alot more (x2) the bosch 980cc, which seems a little bit overkill for me, even if i want to buy the correct stuff from the beginning. But feels like im paying for details that maybe dont matter for me here.

They also had, Walbro 535l/hr which seems to be a good choice here as well.  
Deatchwerk 400 was also available, but was seemed to perform as good as the walbro. Alot more expensive than the walbro for some reason.

[joshuaho96]

35 minutes ago, reallyspeedly said:

Okey, i found some parts now. 

BOSCH 980cc EV14, will these be good enough as someone recommened here before? The tuner recommened Injector dynamic cause then i could go a bit bigger and they would still be a bit easier to tune. But the ID1050X - ID1200X etc.. costs alot more (x2) the bosch 980cc, which seems a little bit overkill for me, even if i want to buy the correct stuff from the beginning. But feels like im paying for details that maybe dont matter for me here.

They also had, Walbro 535l/hr which seems to be a good choice here as well.  
Deatchwerk 400 was also available, but was seemed to perform as good as the walbro. Alot more expensive than the walbro for some reason.

Bosch 0 280 158 040 is fine. They are the most common high flow injector sold for RB26s these days. If you want ID injectors for the bling factor feel free but if anything the 040 injector is "better" as it retains the diffuser plate. ID1050x has a 5 degree pencil spray pattern which will send most of the fuel down the intake wall divider between the two valves. The 040 has a 30 degree cone which will maybe reduce wall wetting a little bit which will make the tuner's job easier. If you need more than 980 cc/min though your only option with the standard Bosch injectors is the 0 280 158 333 which flows 1462 cc/min. After that the highest flow injectors are natural gas which are not E85 tolerant.

Walbro is probably the way to go, try to get one with integral check valve if you can. I don't think the R32 GTR tank needs the secondary outlet to pump fuel from the other half of the tank but check to be sure.

1 hour ago, reallyspeedly said:

This is really intressting. There is alot of factors that play along here in these systems

Even that Motive did this research and he seemed very convinced that Single out runs a twin setup, there could be things that they did not think of. 

But sure, turbos today have gone along way foward in technology and the latest garrett will probably peform greater than 2 of their first garrett models. 

,

One thing I've always wondered is what exactly the "high flowing" did to the -7s. Entirely possible their results are not at all representative as a result. Housing and rotating assembly are engineered together.

[r32-25t]

2 hours ago, joshuaho96 said:

I can't give you a scenario where twins outperform a single but a local owner went from GT-SS turbos to GTX3576R gen 2 and the results were nowhere near what Motive claimed, which was the same power as -7s down low but 400+ kW up top with a GTX3582R. He lost power between 2000 and ~4200 rpm but gained power from there. I have no idea why their results were so different but it definitely was not due to cheaping out on parts. If anyone does have a good explanation I'm curious to know. Even if you want to significantly increase power there's still a lot of room for improvement in the factory piping. HKS just showed off a seemingly near-final redesign of the factory intake piping from airbox to intercooler inlet that resolves a lot of the basic issues with the OEM piping:

The answer to why it didn’t perform like Andrew said it would is easy. Being a gen2 version he wouldn’t have used a twin scroll rear on it and that’s what will make or break a set up, twin scroll really does make that much of a difference 

[reallyspeedly]

1 hour ago, joshuaho96 said:

If you need more than 980 cc/min though your only option with the standard Bosch injectors is the 0 280 158 333 which flows 1462 cc/min

What about the Bosch 1200cc/min i found aswell? 1462cc/min bosch will probably be too big for my application?

[GTSBoy]

4 hours ago, reallyspeedly said:

What about the Bosch 1200cc/min i found aswell? 1462cc/min bosch will probably be too big for my application?

If you're going to run 98, then 1000cc injectors are good for about 1000 engine HP. If E85, then maybe 750ish. That is a lot of power - you're unlikely to need much more. The 1000s will tune better and run better than the 1200s. I cannot see the point in the 1200s unless you're proposing to need that much power.

[reallyspeedly]

Is it correct that the IAT sensor is slow and should be replaced? 

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

53 minutes ago, reallyspeedly said:

Is it correct that the IAT sensor is slow and should be replaced? 

 

Yes, the OEM sensor is garbage 

[robbo_rb180]

51 minutes ago, reallyspeedly said:

Is it correct that the IAT sensor is slow and should be replaced? 

 

Yes replace the nissan IAT with a GM style one.
With the Link ecu you want IAT and Wideband sensors at a minimum can add Oil and fuel pressure and utilise the safety strategies.

[reallyspeedly]

8 hours ago, robbo_rb180 said:

Yes replace the nissan IAT with a GM style one.
With the Link ecu you want IAT and Wideband sensors at a minimum can add Oil and fuel pressure and utilise the safety strategies.

About the wide and o2 sensors. I asked someone at link and they told me " only the g4x fury has onboard lambda controller, any other ecu wil require a external wide and controller. G4 needs a controller that outputs 0-5v analog output. The sensor is irrelevant to the ecu, you need to use the sensor that your controller is designed for."

 

How does this work? With my maxxecu i can see the lambda on the laptop and on the iPad. So from what i know the maxxecu is connected to the wide and sensors.

But here i will need to get something like the LC2 innovate controller? Also a gauge do display the actually lambda?

 

For the fuel press and oil pressure. If i get new sensors, there is possible to connect these directly to the ecu right? I was going to buy the expansion loom for the older g4 ecu to be able for more inputs.

[reallyspeedly]

Haha, would this be possible?. I have a Maxxecu for my other car. The maxxecu is not a plug in, so if i make a loom for the GTR aswell i could just with a milspec connector put the ecu in that car that i want to drive 🧐

Quick disconnect from one car with the milspec connector and just plug the ecu in the other one 😆?

[robbo_rb180]

That is normal to have a controller wired to the old g4 series to an ANVolt input. Once configured can see it on PCLink, I have been doing that for 10+ years with older links. CAN is better but not available on a G4.

Yes, wire the pressure sensors to ANVolt inputs. Need to also wire them to +5v and sensor ground.

[Murray_Calavera]

51 minutes ago, reallyspeedly said:

About the wide and o2 sensors. I asked someone at link and they told me " only the g4x fury has onboard lambda controller, any other ecu wil require a external wide and controller. G4 needs a controller that outputs 0-5v analog output. The sensor is irrelevant to the ecu, you need to use the sensor that your controller is designed for."

 

How does this work? With my maxxecu i can see the lambda on the laptop and on the iPad. So from what i know the maxxecu is connected to the wide and sensors.

But here i will need to get something like the LC2 innovate controller? Also a gauge do display the actually lambda?

 

For the fuel press and oil pressure. If i get new sensors, there is possible to connect these directly to the ecu right? I was going to buy the expansion loom for the older g4 ecu to be able for more inputs.

Yep, an innovate or AEM or whatever you choose to use for the wideband controller. Something like this will do the trick. 

https://www.carmodsaustralia.com.au/x-series-wideband-uego-afr-sensor-controller-gauge.html

You then feed the 5V single from the controller to the ECU. 

You'll probably want to use the wideband gauge until you get a better solution like a standalone dash. 

Yeah the other temp and pressure sensors get fed into the ECU, provided you have enough inputs/outputs left to accept them. 

Answering you0r post below, yeah you could use the 1 ECU for multiple cars, you don't need to use a "mil spec" connector. Superseal connectors work well and the tooling need to crimp the connectors is cheap. 

If the whole pull the ECU out, plug the laptop in, upload the tune etc etc, each time you want to drive the other car doesn't bother you - yeah go for it.