2007 F1 Season

[Roy]

Hey MS was dirty as they come...and honestly, because thats a completely different sort of personality to mine...i have to kind of look at MS/Alonso and say i wish in circumstances i could be that ruthless. But LW was playing games with Alonso and he didnt take it. If Alonso pulled that sort of behaviour from nowhere then different story. As it was s response to LH's g=behviour...bravo

Go the little Spaniard.

[ctjet]

So everybody who hated the spaniard at the start of the year now love him, and visa versa?

Seems to be the reverse situation with Hamilton

[Roy]

I still dont care either way for Hamilton. Alonso i didnt like because Trulli got shafted by the whole Renault/ Alonso thing. But he punched when shoved....i like how he is keeping the very talented up start that is Hamilton honest

[Duncan]

lol drivers would never be involved in cheating or trying to get info on other teams or setups.

ffs I spent my life trying to find what tyre pressures other people were running when i was doing one make racing since it was the only thing other than driving that I could control

[m3gtr]

If you have some time on your hands the transcripts of the proceedings make for interesting reading. It shows how insubstantial the allegations really were & also that the FIA didn't care whether or not McLaren made use of any information. The way the whole thing was conducted was bordering on the shambollic.

I guess not penalising the drivers (Hamilton knew nothing about any of it & Alonso didn't even have the guts to turn up!) allows the FIA to try & present themselves as being reasonable.

your damned right mate!!!

I and a queens council that represented Mac at the hearing feel the same way..of course they would though but what a way with words!

"The question is not: can McLaren prove that it has not used Ferrari’s confidential information, but rather the opposite," he said. "Is it established, to the standard that the president [Max Mosley] himself suggested was appropriate, and that is a very high standard indeed, that we did use the information? Of course not. How can it? We are left with the suspicion that the president has, based on the slightly theatrical run-through of those pages, as he stood up and showed everyone the two files. The suspicion that there is probably something in there. Fine. Then the response is not bring us back here, let alone throw us out of the championships. Rather, you bring in Mr Whiting [F1 race director Charlie Whiting]. We have issued an invitation, and it remains on the table. Do not draw conclusions against us. Tell Charlie Whiting to go into McLaren to go into the organisation and not return until, having checked it from top to bottom, he is satisfied that no use has occurred. That has not happened; I don’t know why.

"I do, however, know that if you convict us today without the FIA having done that, that will be the grossest misjustice in my professional experience."

[m3gtr]

!!?!?!?!?!?! this is a big change of tune from the alonso fan i have come to see over the last 2 years. why are you deserting him now? I seem to remember you tellng me alonso how alonso was the greatest thing since sliced bread....

if anything I like him a little more now that he's being an arsehole. in the past he was just a faggy looking, shaggy haired little nancy. at least now he's a coniving, backstabbing shaggy haired little nancy...

nah richo you got it all wrong...

I was a big alonso fan, loved the spanish bravado, flowing hair and his ( now distant ) flamboyant nature (..villenueve ring any bells? ) but things have changed and so has my attitude towards the spaniard...

Not only has he publicly disgraced himself, his nationality ( along with de la Rosa ) and his team by ADMITTING he cheated and had the evidence to prove it, hes gone and spat in the face of the one team principle that has more dignity and integrity than any other in the pitane, except FW of course. Why RD hasnt sacked the ungrateful little whelp is beyond my grasp of comprehension. Better still why alonso hasnt been decked by the burly mechanics i often see within the garage is equally puzzling...maybe its because he bribes them to provide him with the better set up...

He thinks the team owe him something and because hes the 2005/6 champion at that! Whos the one who needs to pull his horse sized head out of his mouse sized bunghole? LH or FA? The choice for me at least is CRYSTAL clear.

LH may be a spoilt, doe eyed, silver spoon fed, ignominious brat but at least hes not a conniving, back stabbing, ungrateful, disrespectful, insolent, blackmailing know it all snake.

LH for WDC.

RD and Mac owe no driver ANYTHING except their paychecks. For alonso to arrogantly claim he has made them almost a second quicker is incredulousness at its most galling, and to add to that the fact that he reportedly BLACKMAILED RD is utterly incomprehensible, borderline unforgivable.

[Kaido_RR]

lol

opinions are a wonderful thing; dont think any of us will see eye to eye but makes good reading

[Kinks]

It doesn't matter whether McLaren used the information or not. They should still be penalised for having it.

That's like saying "oh, you were doing double the speed limit... but you didn't kill anyone so that's OK just don't do it again"

get real.

[djr81]

It doesn't matter whether McLaren used the information or not. They should still be penalised for having it.

That's like saying "oh, you were doing double the speed limit... but you didn't kill anyone so that's OK just don't do it again"

get real.

Never forget that at the core of this is a Ferrari employee getting fkd over badly by Ferrari....

Anyway, read the transcipt of the evidence. Not only didn't McLaren use the information they variously demonstrated that:

1. Much of it was wrong.

2. Much of it was either obsolete or irrelevent.

3. All of it was sourced from legitimate means as well as being discussed in the emails.

4. Other than one engineer, no one in the engineering arm was aware of it.

I need to explain #3. Take the weight distribution as an example. De la Rosa talked about it in an email to Stepney. Turns out that all the teams routinely calculate the weight distributions of the cars - they calculate it by using the footage of the cars when they are hoisted on the cranes after an off track excursion. So this supposedly valuable bit of info was therefore available to everyone. Turns out de la Rosa, for all the talk of using in the simulator, never did simply because it was well outside of McLarens parameters.

And so it goes - there was categorically no smoking gun. Just a disgruntled Ferrari employeee & a complicit FIA (Particlarly Max Mosely).

The best bit of the whole thing was that Ferrari tried to demonstrate that McLaren did something wrong when they found out & ratted on Ferrari using illegal floor designs.

To anyone who thinks it is not common practice for all teams to do everything they can to find out what everyone else is doing, well that is so naive words fail me. Teams analyse others designs and basically monitor everything they can. Paddock gossip is always about what everyone else is doing. Read de la Rosa testimony - he was flabbergasted that the Ferrari beak could argue otherwise.

[Kinks]

oh for sure it goes on, but when the cover is blown so publicly heads will roll. it's like the saying "it's only illegal if you get caught".

[Kaido_RR]

interested interview with Montoya

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2744838,00.html

Montoya feels sorry for Alonso

Friday 21st September 2007

Juan Pablo Montoya has given his sympathy to Fernando Alonso for having Ron Dennis' "baby" Lewis Hamilton as a team-mate.

Former F1 driver Montoya knows how the dynamics at McLaren work having driven for the team in his final two years in F1.

The Colombian, though, was dropped midway through his second season after he signed a contract to run in the NASCAR series from 2007, leaving McLaren on somewhat unhappy terms.

The team later signed an all-new line-up for this season, choosing double World Champion Alonso and rookie driver Hamilton.

However, it hasn't been a great match.

Although the two driver are equal out on track, that, according to Montoya, is where the equality stops.

"Fernando is a nice guy, but he was the No. 1 at Renault and he was used to winning and getting everything," Montoya told The Associated Press.

"Then he went to McLaren, and when Connie and I heard that Lewis was going to be his team-mate, we said 'Oh my God.' We immediately felt sorry for Fernando because Lewis is Ron's baby.

"Ron paid his whole career, so Ron wants him to win and not Fernando. He would rather see Lewis win, who is like his own child to Ron. Fernando is nothing to him."

Asked if was a mistake of Alonso to sign with McLaren, Montoya said: "He thought he was going to come in and be No. 1, and he's just not.

"They try to make them be equal, but Lewis is genuinely a really fast driver. And apart from being really fast, he's Ron's favorite. It's just the truth, and it makes it bad for Fernando."

As for his thoughts on Dennis, Montoya isn't exactly a fan of his former team boss. "Ron, outside the work environment, is a great guy. But he's two different guys.

"The guy who I signed with and played golf with, he just didn't exist in the office. He was just a different person, you wouldn't even recognise him.

"He wants to control everything, and I think Fernando is (angry) about that because he is not used to someone controlling everything and did not like that Ron was like that. I think Ron is used to drivers who don't say anything back.

"They are very quiet and very nice and do what everyone says, and I came along and he didn't like that. Now I guess Fernando is the same way."

[Kozeyekan]

In regards to the whole McLaren cheating thingy, does anyone here really beleive that if a McLaren Engineer offered tech manuals to Ferrari, that they would not take them?

[ctjet]

of course not, are you kidding...

they are the model for fair play and everything right and just within the sport

[**JaR**]

In regards to the whole McLaren cheating thingy, does anyone here really beleive that if a McLaren Engineer offered tech manuals to Ferrari, that they would not take them?

so?

does that mean its ok for McLaren to do it?

lol...

[djr81]

so?

does that mean its ok for McLaren to do it?

lol...

Do what? McLaren didn't cheat. McLaren didn't do anything that all the teams (including Ferrari) routinely do anyway. If it wasn't for the FIA needing to deliver Ferrari a championship to make up for their lack of competitiveness over the past three years, nothing would have come of it. Read the transcript of the proceedings. It would be funny if it wasn't such a sad malodrama.

The only people who have done the wrong thing here are Coughlan, Stepney (Who got fkd over by Ferrari in any case), Ferrari as a team (For dragging F1 throught all this sh!t) & the FIA for delivering such an obviously flawed verdict & for conducting the proceedings in such a shambollic fashion.

[Snowman]

So apparently it's reported that Alonso is going to Ferrari in 08 for $40mil and Massa is going to Toyota.

Alonso and Ferrari seem a good pairing. And I can't wait for the relationship between him and Kimi - they'll be sure to be best mates.

Still no word on who will take Alonso's spot at Mac though.

[sav man]

I saw that on Autoblog this morning. I don't want alonso at Ferrari

[Roy]

My money is he i wont go to Ferrari. Mainly because Massa will no tgo to Toyota. He is far to good a drive rto be stuck in the underperforming Toyota!

[djr81]

So apparently it's reported that Alonso is going to Ferrari in 08 for $40mil and Massa is going to Toyota.

Alonso and Ferrari seem a good pairing. And I can't wait for the relationship between him and Kimi - they'll be sure to be best mates.

Still no word on who will take Alonso's spot at Mac though.

So what is Alonso going to get at Ferrari that he doesn't have at McLaren.

A slower car for one?

An even less communicative team mate?

A less supportive team environment?

Still Ferrari & Alonso probably deserve each other. Can't imagine the departure from McLaren would be particularly tearfull.

Massa would want an even bigger paycheque than $40 to go to Toyota. He could kiss goodbye to any chance of him ever winning a GP again.

[ctjet]

If Alonso's complaint is that he wants No.1 status and isnt getting it, going to Ferrari where he'll encounter a faster and more experienced team mate than his current one... he's in for a shock

Edited September 25, 2007 by ctjet