Gtr Has No Character

[skyline_man]

There are a few journalists in the states criticizing the new GTR as lacking in character because its just too easy to drive fast around a circuit. They complain that all the electronics is taking the fun and scariness out of driving. I think it's just a load of bull. I mean C'mon, do these dim wits even don't know that the GTR actually has traction control and stability control switches? If they do, then they would know that if you turn the TC an SC off, then the car would be a hell of a lot scarier to drive and hence have more 'character'?

Really, i can't see the logic in people who say that this car or that car has a soul. For gods sake, its just a machine - how can it have a soul? The only explanation is that these people are just making up excuses for the car's imperfection by saying that it has soul. The GTR has no soul because- it's Perfect.

[Mayuri Krab]

There are a few journalists in the states criticizing the new GTR as lacking in character because its just too easy to drive fast around a circuit. They complain that all the electronics is taking the fun and scariness out of driving. I think it's just a load of bull. I mean C'mon, do these dim wits even don't know that the GTR actually has traction control and stability control switches? If they do, then they would know that if you turn the TC an SC off, then the car would be a hell of a lot scarier to drive and hence have more 'character'?

Really, i can't see the logic in people who say that this car or that car has a soul. For gods sake, its just a machine - how can it have a soul? The only explanation is that these people are just making up excuses for the car's imperfection by saying that it has soul. The GTR has no soul because- it's Perfect.

Err... isn't that a good thing?

Why the hell do you want a car handles like you are driving a pile of crap with your hands cut off?

Dam those people who wants to be challenged all the time, if theres a easiler way to it, I say go for it.

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

There are a few journalists in the states criticizing the new GTR as lacking in character because its just too easy to drive fast around a circuit. They complain that all the electronics is taking the fun and scariness out of driving. I think it's just a load of bull. I mean C'mon, do these dim wits even don't know that the GTR actually has traction control and stability control switches? If they do, then they would know that if you turn the TC an SC off, then the car would be a hell of a lot scarier to drive and hence have more 'character'?

Really, i can't see the logic in people who say that this car or that car has a soul. For gods sake, its just a machine - how can it have a soul? The only explanation is that these people are just making up excuses for the car's imperfection by saying that it has soul. The GTR has no soul because- it's Perfect.

Its because they are in love with the Z06.

Pretty simple really (as is the Z06, and most of the owners)

[Howie]

I dont' see the big deal about the Z06.. it looks like any other vette produced, and technically it's more of the same (rear drive big donk).

[Roy]

Its always been the same with GTRs. There are lots of professional drivers out there that dotn like how they drive. A few years ago when the R33 was new, they pitted it agaisnt 575 Ferrari, 355 Ferrari, 911, NSX, 3000GT, M3, Elise, GTi Golf etc etc at a race track with Tim Harvey, Richard Burns and Jeremy Clarkson all driving. The UK Spec R33 GTR was the quickest around the track, yet didnt make the top 5 when it came to selecting the best handling car there. (The aim of the shootout was to find the best handlign car on the market)

They just didnt like how the ATTESA did it all for you and the car didnt respond to all the drivers inputs.

[Sarumatix]

In some ways I completely agree with the view. If you only got one car to race in your life, a GTR would definitely hide some of the pleasures involved in pushing a car. Simple RWD platforms in particular provide a much more in your face experience. That said, once you take the time to understand the GTR, it still provides the same pleasure... it's just not pushed into your face. Call it a more subtle car. The new GT-R appears to follow this philosophy much further to the point that if you expect the car to yell and scream about when it's doing its thing, the GT-R just wont make any sense to you.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Sarumatix

[Silver-Arrowz]

They can have all the character they want... I'll keep the trophies.

[djr81]

I thought all the journo's who wanted character in their cars had been killed when their old school 911s speared off the road backwards.

[ctjet]

or thier TVR's

or lambo's for that matter

[R338OY]

For gods sake, its just a machine - how can it have a soul?

I beg to differ. It doesn't literally have a soul, what they mean is the car lacks character. I agree with these journos. Of course i've not driven an R35, but hearing and seeing it in the videos it doesn't seem the bulldog the 3rd gen GTR's were. The VR38 engine isn't as raspy as the RB26, it has lots of buttons and technology which makes it appear soft, and it's quiet and composed at high speeds. For speed junkies this is a let down. This is my take on the soulessness commentary.

With some modifications, like a larger exhaust, i think the hidden soul of the R35 will come out.

The UK Spec R33 GTR was the quickest around the track, yet didnt make the top 5 when it came to selecting the best handling car there. (The aim of the shootout was to find the best handlign car on the market)

They just didnt like how the ATTESA did it all for you and the car didnt respond to all the drivers inputs.

I saw that video, and i think it was a bias test. The GTR was quickest from A to B but didn't win. Why? Because they wouldn't allow a 'Nissan' to beat a Ferrari or a Lotus or a BMW. Just imagine what would've happened to the Football hierarchy if Australia beat Italy in the 2006 World Cup? They were booted out over a bullshit penalty, but the balance of power dictated it IMO. I know i'm sounding overly-conspiratorial, but applied to that test, it's obvious Jeremy and the others loved the GTR. But they loved the Euro cars more. They might also create a poor relationship with brands like Ferrari if they let a Nissan bomb beat it in a track test. Food for thought.

That said, once you take the time to understand the GTR, it still provides the same pleasure... it's just not pushed into your face. Call it a more subtle car.

Exactly. In light of the post made by skyline_man it's a situation where the motoring press, as well as enthusiasts, not having developed a taste for the way GTR's perform. If you like a car that kicks and screams, you'll have to push the R35 much harder than a RWD car.

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

I thought all the journo's who wanted character in their cars had been killed when their old school 911s speared off the road backwards.

lol

very true.

[BIGS]

Well I don't know what those journos are complaining about, they are there to pick faults in a car and the best they can come up with is "it has no character" well I guess as Skyline Man says cause its so perfect. I mean I think thats the idea of producing a new generation car isn't it? Just because Nissan can build a near perfect car for so cheap it makes super car brands look like rip offs. I guess the character in Lambo is it looks like every other Lambo same for Porsche and well Ferrari I guess if you want to spend the $$$ for their top line car than you won't find one that pushes the envelope.

[Roy]

I saw that video, and i think it was a bias test. The GTR was quickest from A to B but didn't win. Why? Because they wouldn't allow a 'Nissan' to beat a Ferrari or a Lotus or a BMW. Just imagine what would've happened to the Football hierarchy if Australia beat Italy in the 2006 World Cup? They were booted out over a bullshit penalty, but the balance of power dictated it IMO. I know i'm sounding overly-conspiratorial, but applied to that test, it's obvious Jeremy and the others loved the GTR. But they loved the Euro cars more. They might also create a poor relationship with brands like Ferrari if they let a Nissan bomb beat it in a track test. Food for thought.

LOL, are you kidding. If you saw the vid you will know that they rated the Peugeot 206 2nd over the Porsche 355 Ferrari, Lotus etc etc. Subjective, yes. But biased? No more then any comment from a journo. But at least this was qualified by Harvey and Burns, two paid race car drivers. Burns commented that you do something silly, the car sorts it out. And Harvey commented on it being one of the quickes tpoint to point cars he had driven. But they all agreed that eh nadlign was dead and computers did too much for you

[nfi]

There are a few journalists in the states criticizing the new GTR as lacking in character because its just too easy to drive fast around a circuit. They complain that all the electronics is taking the fun and scariness out of driving. I think it's just a load of bull. I mean C'mon, do these dim wits even don't know that the GTR actually has traction control and stability control switches? If they do, then they would know that if you turn the TC an SC off, then the car would be a hell of a lot scarier to drive and hence have more 'character'?

Really, i can't see the logic in people who say that this car or that car has a soul. For gods sake, its just a machine - how can it have a soul? The only explanation is that these people are just making up excuses for the car's imperfection by saying that it has soul. The GTR has no soul because- it's Perfect.

Watch every season of top gear and you will understand the 'soul' a car can or cannot have. Imagine, having driven all the supercars the world has produced. Then try to imagine the varying engine notes, handling characteristics, differences in 'feel', turn in, power delivery, torque delivery, brakes in addition to the asthetics. Any these factors can completely change your perception of a car. With supercars it is even more extreme because the whole car is so extreme and often compromised.

When you have driven all the best super cars you will start to want more... the x factor. Sort of like how some women all the guys want. There is nothing you can put your finger on as to why... She might not even be the prettiest girl around. They just have an appeal.

For cars that is the engine note, the way you sit, the way the power is delivered, how the car makes you feel, what it looks like. These factors all give it a 'soul'.

The new GTR I have only sat in and while I would really like one it is currently a bit too refined which causes it to lack soul. Think about a heavily modified GTR vs a standard one. The modified one: The engine note, the look, the lumpy idle, the presence all give it soul. The standard one: All quiet, refined, well behaved and comfortable.

I think that sums it up. If you don't get it now your probably not going to get it.

[rev210]

What is the character of the GTR?

If it was a person what would it be like?

It's like a friend that likes to take you for a thrash Gives you a hand driving as fast as you can and trys its best not to kill you.

On the other hand a spirited car like a TVR looks at you with contmept. It despises you so much that it's prepared to smash itself to bits just to kill or maim you.

[scathing]

Motor Magazine said the same thing about the Audi RS6 during their PCOTY test a while back. With its twin turbo V8, AWD, and TLAs, the thing is so amazingly competent that it feels like the car's going to run a fast time no matter who you put in it. It feels like you, as a human, is just some "mandatory weak link" just getting in the way of the engineers' technical mastery.

By all accounts, the R35 GT-R feels the same. There's just too much car for most people. It feels like you're holding the car back rather than an integral part of getting it from start to finish in the fastest time possible.

In the end, it depends on what you want. If you only want to win races, you buy an R35. If you want something that's about the sheer joy and tactile experience of driving something that feels like an extension of your body then you get a Caterham / PRB / Elise / Noble / 2WD 911.

[BIGS]

The character will come out in the modified examples which is what our scene is all about.

[HotPlates]

I think too many journos try to replicate Top Gear's top whinging Pom... Clarkson. Even when nothing is wrong with a car he will make up some BS just to get ratings. Otherwise....it would be a boring review and he wouldn't make as many $$$.

This journo is simply doing more of the same. The GTR is widely publicised to be the direct competitor to the Porsche 911 turbo. A competent "everyday" supercar. Comfortable, reliable & fast. This is what the GTR set out to achieve and it did so. Both lack the "soul" that is referred to. But the standard GTR was never intended to have oodles of it in the first place.

Soul, character & passion are what the GTR will leave for the V-Spec. A true track supercar for people who yearn for the 'edge.'

I bet if the standard GTR came out with too much "soul" then they would be bagging it from that angle saying it's too "edgy". The GTR is a refined everyday supercar. It goes in, kicks arse and you don't break a sweat. For the people who can realistically afford it, this is new having a supercar that is refined, comfortable, reliable and fast. It's unheard of.

[giant]

bigs so true! lets see how much soul a 9 second r35 has thats also a circuit car! (which wont be to hard to achieve)

[BIGS]

Exactly right!! Talk about setting a new bench mark, being able to excel in all disciplines and still be street driven NOW thats a car