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Joeyjoejoe's E85 Tuning Adventutres

joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo
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scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

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^^ if a tank is completely sealed how can 98 go off?

tanks aren't sealed, they have a breather on them which goes to your charcoal canister. 98 goes off because the volatile chemicals evaporate, ethanol is 85% high octane stuff so if you lose some ethanol to evaporation all that happens is you have a bit less fuel than when you started. petrol is low octane base with some high octane additions and if these evaporate then you are left with shit fuel.

the main danger with ethanol is when it absorbs moisture, it will form two different layers in the tank with the water concentrated in one of the layers and this is obviously bad for your motor. it's a much bigger problem in boats because it's easier to get water contamination, in a car it's not so bad but something to be aware of if you let the car sit for long periods of time (especially outside - in a garage it would be fine).

When you say breather, it is a vac line so the tank has constant neg pressure. I can only go by my own previous experience and say if you leave 98 in a sealed container it will turn to crap over a few months, I will know with ethanol after next weeks experiment...

I don't see moisture as an issue in the amounts we are talking about, better that it mixes than sit in the bottom of the tank.

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joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo Grand Master

joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo

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It seems to be a popular misconception due to the problems with methanol storage and acidity.

you mean due to rumors circulated by oil companies... ;)

tanks aren't sealed, they have a breather on them which goes to your charcoal canister.

yeeeeees... into my "charcoal canister" which i totally never removed... >_<

Ive had my car sit in the garage for just over 3 months with a full tank of E85. Had no dramas when i drove it again.

i've used some e85 that i had sitting in a 20l sunoco tin in the garage on a milkcrate for over 6 months and it was fine :D

SS8_Gohan Grand Master

SS8_Gohan

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quite a good, comprehensive article

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/is-s...0806-11mog.html

Manildra alone is already sitting on a lake of 100 million litres of fuel-grade ethanol, just waiting for buyers.

>_<:D;)

SS8_Gohan Grand Master

SS8_Gohan

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wonder if these are cheaply available and easy to install/hook-up

There's even a piece of equipment mounted in the fuel tank — very similar to a police breathalyser unit — that can detect how much ethanol is in the fuel and retune the engine's electronics to suit the mix
Rolls Grand Master

Rolls

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wonder if these are cheaply available and easy to install/hook-up

Yep the sensors most certainly are. The only problem is you basically need a motec to take advantage of them, basically you need two maps, one with petrol one with e85 and then you need to interpolate between the two using the sensor. Ultimately you would create 4 or so maps in case its not a linear relationship between the two fuels and have the ecu interpolate between them all. Not really that cheap to set up, but very effective when done, almost all new cars from the factory are capable of doing this.

Edited by Rolls
SS8_Gohan Grand Master

SS8_Gohan

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the pricks didn't post my second comment

"To Barry Park: Can I convert my existing Commodore to run on E85?

No"

This is incorrect. Most commodores getting around these days can be converted, and if you got this info to the contrary from Holden, they're basically lying.

They posted my first comment in a matter of minutes, but the above has gone MIA - Barry Park is the author.

EDIT: tried again, still won't post it the pricks.

joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo Grand Master

joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo

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Yep the sensors most certainly are. The only problem is you basically need a motec to take advantage of them, basically you need two maps, one with petrol one with e85 and then you need to interpolate between the two using the sensor. Ultimately you would create 4 or so maps in case its not a linear relationship between the two fuels and have the ecu interpolate between them all. Not really that cheap to set up, but very effective when done, almost all new cars from the factory are capable of doing this.

motec = $ = problem :)

Rolls Grand Master

Rolls

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the link/vipec computers can use the Siemens E85 ethanol content sensor, trent might be interested to have a play around with one and see how it works?

Yeah any computer that allows a 3rd dimension to the fuel/ignition maps will be capable of doing it. As currently most fuel/ignition maps are controlled via rpm and airflow. They have trim maps based on TPS etc sometimes but to use an alcohol fuel ratio sensor you need to modify fuel and ignition, and its not linear, need a complete map.

PM-R33 Grand Master

PM-R33

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This could be an awesome excuse for me to get a vipec

cycly idle wank FTW!!!

I'm doing another formal drop off at the end of this year and im thinking the cycle idle on the Vipec going into my car will come in handy :P

But yeah the Vipec being able to adjust the map with the sensor in the tank for the E85 sounds like a great plan!

Edited by PM-R33

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