Recent Spike In Violence In Melbourne

[bombtrack]

Very true, although I don't think it's quite as clear cut as I made it sound. The onus definitely is on the individual to walk away, both the aggressor and the victim... but I think in the case of a bashing, it's often quite obvious who should pay what

Edit: To clarify and bring in line with my first post - I said both people pay, no matter the situation, but there needs to be a qualifier in there I think. Where both parties are throwing malicious punches, it goes both ways no questions asked. Where it's a little more clouded I am not sure how they deal with it short of investigating it.

[West]

Its all because of the UNDER BELLY series..... "i'll cut you up and put u in the chilly bin bro"

[IOWNU]

Without going too deep into this discussion, I'd like to refute on my part the ridiculous claims that race is a determinative factor in crime. How can race be a factor? Is crime a genetically inherent trait? Is there a greater genetic propensity towards crime if a person is of a particular ethnicity? No. I do agree there there are certain ethnicities that are more inclined to engage in crime when compared to others, but ethnicity is not the causative factor, to argue such presents truly fallacious logic and depicts implicit racism.

Crime is multi-factorial in nature and is largely underpinned by socio-economic status. Chances are, crime is more acceptable/normal in certain areas of Melbourne, where the majority of residents are not Anglo-Saxon Australian, the fact that they are of a particular ethnicity is ancillary to the true factors that cause crime, i.e poverty, social attitudes, youth culture and discipline, law enforcement policy and so on.

[nzm033]

Its all because of the UNDER BELLY series..... "i'll cut you up and put u in the chilly bin bro"

speaching of undebelly my uncle is treating mark morans' wife from depression and all that other stuff

[Birds]

speaching of undebelly my uncle is treating mark morans' wife from depression and all that other stuff

I'd be careful saying that one, he could lose his job over it...I'm pretty sure that's breaching a patient confidentiality law

IOWNU no one is saying it's genetic. It's not necessarily nature, but nurture. Immigrants were raised in different cultures with different values, morals, attitudes towards friends, family, gender and enemies - I'm not saying at all that ours are necessarily better or worse, but they are definitely different. This has a massive impact on someone's behaviour in particular circumstances. Different countries have different laws and political stances. Do you, for example, foresee a civil war occurring between any of the states in Australia? Modern Western culture does not pertain to that sort of thing...but in the Middle East and Africa, for example, it is commonplace. We also have a system of law that deters taking matters into your own hands because we are raised to believe there are non-violent, legal vessels with which to resolve dispute.

There are tons of immigrant children and refugees who have grown up around nothing but fighting and war. I have an Egyptian friend who hates Jewish people...I've asked him why and all he can give me is "because they are scum" and his reasoning is that "Arabs are meant to hate Jews because they have for a long, long time". He's not a violent person and would never start a fight over someone being Jewish...but all he would need is the temperament. So yes, I say race is definitely a contributing factor...not the only factor (there are many more as you listed), but in some incidents of violence I would say yes.

[adznight]

Without going too deep into this discussion, I'd like to refute on my part the ridiculous claims that race is a determinative factor in crime. How can race be a factor? Is crime a genetically inherent trait? Is there a greater genetic propensity towards crime if a person is of a particular ethnicity? No. I do agree there there are certain ethnicities that are more inclined to engage in crime when compared to others, but ethnicity is not the causative factor, to argue such presents truly fallacious logic and depicts implicit racism.

Crime is multi-factorial in nature and is largely underpinned by socio-economic status. Chances are, crime is more acceptable/normal in certain areas of Melbourne, where the majority of residents are not Anglo-Saxon Australian, the fact that they are of a particular ethnicity is ancillary to the true factors that cause crime, i.e poverty, social attitudes, youth culture and discipline, law enforcement policy and so on.

Race is most certainly a determining factor. Genetically no, but socially yes. When you have immigrants coming from war torn countries or countries where social and living standards are completely dissimilar to ours of course there are going to be problems. Some of these people are completely desensitised to violence and simply don’t have the respect for human life that other cultures do. Other are so used to seeing this type of problem they simply think it’s normal and then there is the small minority that bring personal/racial conflict from other countries here. Not all situations are the same of course but through my eyes it’s not completely surprising.

[GT-R 32]

Race is most certainly a determining factor. Genetically no, but socially yes. When you have immigrants coming from war torn countries or countries where social and living standards are completely dissimilar to ours of course there are going to be problems. Some of these people are completely desensitised to violence and simply don't have the respect for human life that other cultures do. Other are so used to seeing this type of problem they simply think it's normal and then there is the small minority that bring personal/racial conflict from other countries here. Not all situations are the same of course but through my eyes it's not completely surprising.

lol everything and anything is a factor, race/appearance/culture/ attitude/ opinions/ environment/ blah blah.

but its agreeable that lack of respect is 1 of the main causes.

"Guns dont kill people, People kill People" lol tupac knows

[Birds]

Guns don't kill people...but they help.

[Phatboy]

Without going too deep into this discussion, I'd like to refute on my part the ridiculous claims that race is a determinative factor in crime. How can race be a factor? Is crime a genetically inherent trait? Is there a greater genetic propensity towards crime if a person is of a particular ethnicity? No. I do agree there there are certain ethnicities that are more inclined to engage in crime when compared to others, but ethnicity is not the causative factor, to argue such presents truly fallacious logic and depicts implicit racism.

Crime is multi-factorial in nature and is largely underpinned by socio-economic status. Chances are, crime is more acceptable/normal in certain areas of Melbourne, where the majority of residents are not Anglo-Saxon Australian, the fact that they are of a particular ethnicity is ancillary to the true factors that cause crime, i.e poverty, social attitudes, youth culture and discipline, law enforcement policy and so on.

Dude, fights have been picked over less than the colour of someone's skin, let alone their dissimilar culture, values, upbringing, etc. Race is indeed a causative factor. It is part of human nature to try to categorise ourselves into a "them and us" paradigm, subconsciously sometimes - and inevitably conflict will arise (and has arisen) with nationality, ethnicity, religion, political beliefs all through human history and will continue into the future with wars between human-inhabited planets. It is part of biopsychosocial evolution to protect our clan and fight others, different to ourselves, as these were the primates who survived.

Guns don't kill people...but they help.

LOL

[tets]

heard theres a blitz on this weekend on hoons, majority of police will be on the freeway with boozbuses in the suburbs instead of in the city.

means if u want to start a fight or beat people up, the city is the place to be.

[R31Nismoid]

Hopefully the first of many to actually be punished for this shit going on in Melb.

Cintar Pekar

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,2...347-661,00.html

Peker and a friend "took umbrage" when Mr Turner looked at them after Peker's friend fell over drunk in Lonsdale St about 3.15am on November 29 last year.

Peker chased Mr Turner then punched and kicked him.

A guy was bashed for looking - pathetic. IMO 18 months isnt enough, should be 3 years... but at least it's a start.

Plus he's no 'really' in jail as such, pussy judges still have a bit to go yet before they are actually 'being tough'.

[Birds]

Dude, fights have been picked over less than the colour of someone's skin, let alone their dissimilar culture, values, upbringing, etc. Race is indeed a causative factor. It is part of human nature to try to categorise ourselves into a "them and us" paradigm, subconsciously sometimes - and inevitably conflict will arise (and has arisen) with nationality, ethnicity, religion, political beliefs all through human history and will continue into the future with wars between human-inhabited planets. It is part of biopsychosocial evolution to protect our clan and fight others, different to ourselves, as these were the primates who survived.

It is so refreshing to see someone else who understands these concepts...

Good riddance to this Pekar f**kwit. I'm with the people who say hardly anyone will throw a punch if you have tough penalties. It works for litter in Singapore, why not for violence in Melbourne.

[R31Nismoid]

^^ because of the pussy minority groups that piss and moan about getting up in the morning don't like it.

Fine the pricks $2,000 each, you'll see em stop.

[Puppey]

I came to Melbourne in 1998. Before I came here people said to me that Australia is a country with a firm law.

I'm a simple person who don't like any bullshits ... not on the road! (which I have seen many) and certainly not in public places (I have seen none only from the news)

Coming from a place where law and order 'can be purchased', I was quite happy with the way Melbourne was when I first arrived.

I could walk in the city feeling safe. I had the utmost respect for police here.

Fast forward 10 years ... I can't imagine how dramatically Melbourne has changed.

Seems like everywhere people go they carry knives with "I don't know why I don't like you but because I don't like you I'll stab you" attitude.

Reading from what people wrote of what they witnessed ... how police don't want to get involved with a fight ... it is very demoralizing.

Police are here to enforce the Law.. they are trained for these things .. they are the backbone of the Law ..

so if they were weak .. what hope would the rest of the body has to stand up?

I have been in situation where I was told to deal with the matter myself when I called a police station.

I certainly lost all the respect I before had, it's just the same as where I come from. Only a different country.

My 2 cents.

[eMsta]

Right - so I think I am getting just a tad annoyed with the justice system now.

Last weeks article:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,2...934-661,00.html

Todays article:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,2...947-661,00.html

So I can dare one of my bigger friends to chase down someone, try and punch them and cause their death, but then feel remorse over my own stupidity and then get a community based order?

the legal system in this state is just a f**kin joke......

[Phatboy]

Those stories just sicken me, more for the manifestly inadequate sentences than the crimes themselves, as I know that the justice system is pretty much giving violent young men with too much time on their hands free reign. Do you think a teenager gives a f*ck that he needs to do community service? And how can someone like that Carozzo guy, who seems to be racist against everyone, have a "good chance of rehabilition" in 10 years after taking part in a murder for pleasure? He needs life behind bars, in a cubicle with a huge black man hung like a horse.

[Roy]

Are there any politicians out there that give a damn to champion this? Police present solid cases to courts and judges completely out of touch. DPP needs to go on a 12 month witch hunt spending all the public's money chasing/appealing the lenient sentences.

I for one will see that as public money well spent. I think judges need to move from their mansions into blue collar suburbs and send their kids to blue collar public shools so that they can gain an appreciation for the fact that we do not live in the Eutopian society where ppl resepct all things

[Basti]

Right - so I think I am getting just a tad annoyed with the justice system now.

Last weeks article:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,2...934-661,00.html

read the full sentence on this one. im not ashamed to say that i teared up reading the family's statement

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,2...754-661,00.html

[eMsta]

read the full sentence on this one. im not ashamed to say that i teared up reading the family's statement

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,2...754-661,00.html

it angers me more than bringing tears....specially what the daughter said in that article.......

how is it that a racist murderer who derived pleasure from this is getting 10 years of public funded roof over his head and meals, while in sudan a woman is getting 40 lashes for wearing trousers in public?

i fail to see the logic in any of these sentences that are taking place these days in victoria

[Birds]

It's so f***ing shithouse to say that the leniant sentence is given so that the perpetrator may learn from their mistake and be rehabilitated into society...

Victims of crimes like this don't get a chance to learn and then get their life back again...they are more than often doing the right thing and their life is taken from them, permanently.

If you haven't learnt this shit by age 10 (the age of discretion in the eyes of the law); the possible consequences of your actions...you should't be a part of society anymore...ever.