Tappett Noise

[DaveB]

Hi all,

Last oil change I changed to Castrol Edge 5w-30. I've done maybe 1,000Ks? and I've had a tune on it (week before last). Last Thursday or Friday sometime, I noticed a tappet tick at startup, and then over the last few days I've begun to notice it at about 1,500RPM, then it goes away above that.

So I figured it was just oil pressure, exacerbated by the thinner oil. But now it's getting louder and at 4,000RPM it is quite noticeable (beginning to sound a bit rattly). Sounds like cylinder 5 or 6 (at the back of the engine) and sounds to be coming from the exhaust side, doesn't sound like the block (hoping like heck it is not the block!). Is a re-cam & replace lifters a head-off job? Will it be an engine out job?

Anyone else had this in their stag'? Mine's S2 250RS4 (so NEO RB25).

[scotty nm35]

Hi all,

Last oil change I changed to Castrol Edge 5w-30. I've done maybe 1,000Ks? and I've had a tune on it (week before last). Last Thursday or Friday sometime, I noticed a tappet tick at startup, and then over the last few days I've begun to notice it at about 1,500RPM, then it goes away above that.

So I figured it was just oil pressure, exacerbated by the thinner oil. But now it's getting louder and at 4,000RPM it is quite noticeable (beginning to sound a bit rattly). Sounds like cylinder 5 or 6 (at the back of the engine) and sounds to be coming from the exhaust side, doesn't sound like the block (hoping like heck it is not the block!). Is a re-cam & replace lifters a head-off job? Will it be an engine out job?

Anyone else had this in their stag'? Mine's S2 250RS4 (so NEO RB25).

My VQ is much noisier this change. I used 5w30 Motul, it poured out like water and now the car is blowing a bit of smoke when cold. I want to try a thicker oil and see if thats what the problem is, im going to get some 10w40 300v tomorrow.

You could try checking the tappet clearance also. If the cars still running well there shouldn't be too much wrong.

[DaveB]

Interesting 'cause that's a newer engine than mine. It's still running but it's getting noticeably louder almost every time I start it, and I read somewhere that it can cause valve stem damage and stuff like that from excessive tappet clearance. Anyone know if these engines have any adjustment for clearance, or do you have to re-shim?

[chook]

+1 for too thin oil, change to a 10W, should be quieter, I certainly noticed how noisey and harsh my engine sounded when I used 5W on the odd occasion in my 33 and Stagea. Nissan recommends 7.5W when brand spankin' new, so our 10 year old, worn engines will prefer at least this or higher.

[KiwiRS4T]

I am now on Castrol Edge 10W 60 on the advice of my local RB expert. I don't know how adjustment is acheived on an RB - guess its time I did mine but one or two other things to sort out first.

[DaveB]

Thanks guys. Chook I thought the first number was the cold viscosity? My theory was the thinner it is on startup the quicker the oil would get into the turbo... this is probably flawed I always thought 60 was very thick? But SK likes that thickness too.

I would suspect oil thickness to be the culprit but it seems to be worse when the engine's warm (ie. after a drive) and it's only one tappet by the sounds. Tonight after driving it a short distance and rather carefully, I pulled up and rev'd it slowly to ~4000 and it was still noticeable from inside the car, sounded a little like a jackhammer with the engine sound. But then driving home it was quiet. Oh... and I have been running this oil for more than a few hundred K's, including a dyno run.

Bah tomorrow I will try to get a mechanic to listen to it; I don't want loose tappets! They drive me nuts. Probably some 10W40 oil will fix it... or probably just mask it a bit (). Just got the 30 stuff 'cause it was full synth (Castrol edge) and cheap at under $50.

Edited September 27, 2009 by DaveB

[zei20l]

dont RB engines have hydraulic lifters?? if they do, one is probably dry or has a build up of crap or varnish. have you run an oil flush through the engine before doing a change?

also, is it possible your engine is now much quieter (due to the oil weight) and you can hear the injectors ticking?

[wolverine]

Series 2 has solid lifters, the Series 1 have hydraulic lifters.

[zei20l]

i thought so, therefore no adjustments required!

run an oil flush through it on next change, i bet it will quiet down if its lifter related

[KiwiRS4T]

i thought so, therefore no adjustments required!

Dave has an S2

run an oil flush through it on next change, i bet it will quiet down if its lifter related

[66yostagea]

When I got my S1 nearly 4 years ago, some 60ks, I flushed the motor and used Nulon fully sin with Nulon addative never any trouble. I do have a ticking noise but it is injector noise and do not worry too much about it. I get a bit of smoke on start up and a bit when floored, but that is just the factory tune. Run rich to prevent meltdown.

I would check the injectors first.

[iamhe77]

Use a quality oil. If 30 seems too thin, move up to 40.

I have had the Nissan 7.5W30 in mine, but the engine was noticeably quieter when I switched to 10W40 (Motul 300v).

As an aside, my wife's Magna's tappets were bloody loud last service.

Put the Nulon tappet additive through and changed the oil to their 10W40 synthetic.

Quite as a mouse now.

Maybe give it a shot?

* For VQ owners - don't go thicker than a 40. I had a 50 in at one stage which was too thick (seemed to require a fair bit of effort to rev). Changed that oil out after 800kms *

Edited September 28, 2009 by iamhe77

[DaveB]

Thanks all, I don't know what the oil flush is that people have mentioned (cheap oil? Pour some kero through Not sure I'd ever be satisfied I'd gotten it all out if I did that...) but I do change the oil at least every 5,000 K's and every time I fit a new filter (bloody messy) 'cause it's only ~$9 (and 1 hose down with detergent afterwards). Always use a 10w40 full synth. or semi synth. (but last time the super-expensive stuff - the castrol edge - was cheap at under $50. It was 5w30 but there are a few people on here with stag's who mention using or having used 30 grade oil...).

I will definitely change to the 40 grade asap (probably do an oil change tonight) but also I should be able to get the local tuner to have a listen to it this afternoon.

I'll keep you all posted... I know whenever I read somebody trying to explain a noise that their engine is making I think it seems a little hopeless to try to troubleshoot it, in text, but still I got some interesting/helpful replies still so thanks all.

[66yostagea]

There is a special oil for flushing. Get some.

[DaveB]

There is a special oil for flushing. Get some.

I see thanks

[chook]

here's a brief explanation i found which might clear things up,

"Using 10W-30 as an example, we can determine that at an oil temperature of 0 degrees , the oil has the properties of 10 weight motor oil while at an oil temperature of 100 degrees, the oil has the properties of 30 weight motor oil"

I personally use "Havoline Synthetic Blend" 10W-40, engine has never been quieter and feels solid, even after 150,000ks. You said that it is noisy when hot, so a 10w-40 would be better than a 10w-30 in your case. So when you take into account our worn engines and high temps in oz, especially coming into summer, 10W-40or50or60 should be fine.

another quote:

"As mileage adds up and internal engine wear increases bearing clearances, it may be wise to switch to a slightly higher viscosity rating to prolong engine life, reduce noise and oil consumption. For example, if an engine originally factory-filled with 5W-30 now has 90,000 miles on it, switching to a 10W-30 oil may provide better lubrication and protection. The thicker oil will maintain the strength of the oil film in the bearings better so the engine will have more oil pressure. This will also reduce engine noise and reduced bearing fatigue (which can lead to bearing failure in high mileage engines)."

[DaveB]

here's a brief explanation i found which might clear things up,

"Using 10W-30 as an example, we can determine that at an oil temperature of 0 degrees , the oil has the properties of 10 weight motor oil while at an oil temperature of 100 degrees, the oil has the properties of 30 weight motor oil"

I personally use "Havoline Synthetic Blend" 10W-40, engine has never been quieter and feels solid, even after 150,000ks. You said that it is noisy when hot, so a 10w-40 would be better than a 10w-30 in your case. So when you take into account our worn engines and high temps in oz, especially coming into summer, 10W-40or50or60 should be fine.

another quote:

"As mileage adds up and internal engine wear increases bearing clearances, it may be wise to switch to a slightly higher viscosity rating to prolong engine life, reduce noise and oil consumption. For example, if an engine originally factory-filled with 5W-30 now has 90,000 miles on it, switching to a 10W-30 oil may provide better lubrication and protection. The thicker oil will maintain the strength of the oil film in the bearings better so the engine will have more oil pressure. This will also reduce engine noise and reduced bearing fatigue (which can lead to bearing failure in high mileage engines)."

Thanks Chook. So the two ratings are at 0 degrees C (5W) and 100 degrees C (30) (in the case of 5w30?) Interesting something which I should have done some research on ages ago... the info' must all be out there

Matter of interest where did the quotes come from? I guess it makes sense that the hot engine needs thicker oil. I'll definitely use a 40 grade oil next time; but... the loud rattle at start-up from one tappet is bad and not going to go away with an oil change, makes me think there is still something wrong. Hopefully I will know in an hour or so... have heard that the NEOs have hydraulic tappets and flat followers, something like that...

[DaveB]

Well I took the car to my local performance workshop who have seen it a few times before now, and I think the guy there was impressed by the sudden change in volume since he tuned it barely a fortnight ago (and on the same oil; it was barely week-old oil when I got it dyno'd).

If I have this right, the earlier RB's apparrently are more sensitive to oil pressure fluctuations on overrun (basically get cruising and lift off accellerator) - apparrently under those conditions there is a drop in oil pressure and their tappets then sometimes go bananas when the oil is a bit thin (30 weight often the case). But the R34's, with the solid shims (no adjustment - have to re-shim) are not as susceptible to this change in oil pressure (I don't know if they're hydraulic lifters or not) and he hasn't heard one become this noisy so suddenly.

So, it's booked in for next week to get the tappet clearances checked out; they'll pull the rocker covers and identify which one it is and see if the shim has moved in the bucket, or something similar.

I remember the old 60's stag (talking Triumph Stag here ) engine in my dad's TR7 had the same trouble with shims; used to sound like a jackhammer when you got them wrong. It was always doing heads, too... :S

Will let you all know how it turns out. I hope to get out of this with just an hour or two's labour and get some new rocker cover gaskets fitted professionally to boot (mine are less than 20,000K's old and weep like anything). If it has to be head off though, well, it'll be getting some more work before it goes back on...

Edited September 28, 2009 by DaveB

[chook]

sorry, should have referenced my information:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/oil_viscosity.htm

http://www.examiner.com/x-4493-Orlando-Aut...osity-explained

good luck with it.

[zei20l]

in answer to your question, i use a nulon engine oil flush, i think its called 'engine oil flush' and its in a small black bottle.

there are other brands (wynns i think) that do the same thing and would have similar names

its easy, park the car where youre gonna change the oil, pour it into the oil filler, idle the engine for 10-15 mins, and then drop the oil out. just make sure its all really out as it thins the oil right out. and to NOT drive the car, for any reason, and dont rev it above idle. im sure you already know to change the oil when its still warm........