5 Dead To-day's Accident

[lukebaldan]

I have the solution - automatic ejector seats a la 2F2F-style

I like it. You'll get defected for using nitrous bottles to propel the ejector seats however

[PM-R33]

The News just said that when the car lost control the girl told the ambo's that her brother grabbed her and put her head in his lap and covered her very sad

[CARSICK]

May I answer your quite reasonable Q Luke with another Q?

Perhaps my radical thoughts should be best answered by young people since your Q related to exactly that - young people.

I'm just trying to do my best. You see, I'm not even Gen X. I'm a baby boomer trying to understand your thoughts as Luke prompted me to.

To get into the army, you need to do a Psych Test.

To get into the navy, it's the same.

And to become a commercial pilot of whom many are former fly-boys with the air force - a Psych Test is par for the course.

So why not leave current laws the same - except those who wish to gain sanction to drive a vehicle with strong power/wt?

These people would need to agree to certain condition such as...

1) Stages 1-3 advanced driving courses

2) Hours logged on wet road or skin pan

3) Hours of night driving

4) Psychological Temperament Testing

This special licence should also have an extra plus and that is a reduced insurance premium; not just a licence to drive a 'you-know-what'!

Before anyone poo-poos a Psych Test, may I offer you these advantages...

An MMPI-IV test can pick up diagnostically ...

a) bipolar

b) major depression

c) schizoid tendencies

d) psychopathic deviate tendencies

e) paranoia & aggression

f) hypomania

g) sociopathology

h) propensity to abuse alcohol

h) that he/she could lose lucidity with even small amounts of alcohol or drugs through brain neurotransmitter dysfunction... yaddayadda,

...conditions that can make a driver 'high risk' when there's pressure or an acute situation.

A good Psych Test like the one above from Uni Minnesota can pick up malingering/lying or even if the subject is only trying to answer to gain approval from the scorer.

The plusses are that roads would be safer to drive on because...

i) anyone who has a pathological condition may get treatment = an option

ii) anyone who has a pathological condition can opt not to get treatment and go through normal channels

iii) existing road users can possibly trust that higher quality drivers are sharing the roads with them

Can I pass this little snippet of constructiveness over to you guys now? I haven't a clue what some of you might think about the thoughts of a 60 yr old eh?

+2 & prevention better than any friggin' cure atm

[iseekool]

End of the day these, are the ingredients for disaster.

- Idiot behind the wheel - knowing full well what he/she is doing is wrong. Advanced driver training would not have helped here, it is one's own personality/attitude.

- Car or some sort of vehicle. Doesn't matter about power etc. anything that can go above 60km/h....

- Speed - any speed above 60km/h, the seriousness off the crash will grow exponentially. Hitting a tree SIDE ON at 60km/h is NOT much more safer than hitting a tree at 140km/h+

No matter what restrictions/bans are imposed. eg. you can ban a driver - but that does not physically stop them from getting into a car and driving.....

====

-> IMHO - this will sound cold - It's just un-fortunate that the driver in this scenario didn't give a sh!t about his mates or the general public and he payed the price. Regardless if he was driving an 800cc car or a V12 twin turbo. If he wasn't speeding/hooning this "probably" (in a mathematical sense - as there is ALWAYS a chance of an acccident) would not have happened. I would dare say this is not an accident, as it was his intentional decision to drive like that.

[Birds]

I believe advanced driver training can help, as being more aware of your cars limitations perhaps you'll be less likely to push it past them...or at the least you might have a helping hand getting out of a bad situation. But it can also be said to hinder the problem by instilling an unnecessary overconfidence in the vehicle. I'll tell you all from personal experience, and I'm sure others can from theirs, the reality of the consequences does not hit you or teach you a lesson until it happens to you or someone very close to you. Everyone including anyone who dies in a high speed accident has heard of people dying from it...this hasn't stopped them from doing it because in the spur of the moment they believe that the risk is low and chances of it happening to them are slim. Then the day it happens it can be too late to go back and say "ok I won't do it anymore". Now there aren't many who can't say they haven't had a play around in their car when they were young...it's well known that shitloads of young guys do. Call it apathetic but I see the period of driving from P plates up until an age of mature driving as just a period that most survive and some are unlucky not to. Either way, shock tactics and this MAFMAD bullshit does not work - it's not a reality for the audience, it's just a television commercial. Got to find another way to vent the attitude...

[llama_au]

Yep, exactly. It's unfortunate but personal experience really seems to be all that will stop an immature mind from taking unnecessary risks. It's always a case of "that happened to that person, but it won't happen to me." I know personally for me it changed when I saw friends roll their cars off mountains, straight into tree's, etc. I had some close calls, but seeing those things really sobered me up.

[Mohsen]

Yep, exactly. It's unfortunate but personal experience really seems to be all that will stop an immature mind from taking unecessary risks. It's always a case of "that happened to that person, but it won't happen to me." I know personally for me it changed when I saw friends roll their cars off mountains, straight into tree's, etc. I had some close calls, but seeing those things really sobered me up.

thats really the answer. imagine speaking on the phone to someone as the driver ploughs into a pole. the eary silence is sickening.. i lost 2 cousins, an uncle and an aunt to high speed accidents.

it really digs in when your young and you lose someone you looked up to.

[Johnny]

I didnt know about this accident until later this evening after passing the accident scene on plenty rd, I didnt know what all the police cars and people were doing there. Was a big shock and quite emotional to hear about the brother saving his sister

Must say that that spot on plenty is a dangerous spot, it is very slippery in the wet but can be even in the dry, there is always small stones all over the road after rain or even some wind - 3 years ago, a friend wrote off a small ford focus doing the speed limit right at that bus stop - he was driving, strayed slightly to the left where the small stones sent him out of control and spun him into a tree down the path...lucky he was ok.

my heart goes out the the family and friends of the deseased.

[Zaver]

Its Really sad to hear this, knowing that i stay right down the road.... Hope their souls Rest in Peace!!

The 15 yr old girl was lucky to have a brother like that...

[iseekool]

I didnt know about this accident until later this evening after passing the accident scene on plenty rd, I didnt know what all the police cars and people were doing there. Was a big shock and quite emotional to hear about the brother saving his sister

Must say that that spot on plenty is a dangerous spot, it is very slippery in the wet but can be even in the dry, there is always small stones all over the road after rain or even some wind - 3 years ago, a friend wrote off a small ford focus doing the speed limit right at that bus stop - he was driving, strayed slightly to the left where the small stones sent him out of control and spun him into a tree down the path...lucky he was ok.

my heart goes out the the family and friends of the deseased.

Fair point. Agree it's a dangerous spot - it's not the best section of road by any means, but the speed limit is 70km/h, the guy was doing well in the 140km/h+ range.

The question is driver attitude/mindset. He should not have been even pushing it past the speed limit in the first place.

For all those that say advanced driver training is required - I agree - however the reason for the training is to get you out of sticky situations, if you are obeying the law in the first place - It does not give an excuse to drive any car to its limits on a public road and save you.

That is why there are speed limits and road rules - as long as you follow them the best of your ability (nobody is perfect) - your chances of a "genuine" accident will be greatly minimised.

All the high speed thrills and taking cars to their should be left for the track.

[blind_elk]

May I answer your quite reasonable Q Luke with another Q?

Perhaps my radical thoughts should be best answered by young people since your Q related to exactly that - young people.

I'm just trying to do my best. You see, I'm not even Gen X. I'm a baby boomer trying to understand your thoughts as Luke prompted me to.

To get into the army, you need to do a Psych Test.

To get into the navy, it's the same.

And to become a commercial pilot of whom many are former fly-boys with the air force - a Psych Test is par for the course.

So why not leave current laws the same - except those who wish to gain sanction to drive a vehicle with strong power/wt?

These people would need to agree to certain condition such as...

1) Stages 1-3 advanced driving courses

2) Hours logged on wet road or skin pan

3) Hours of night driving

4) Psychological Temperament Testing

This special licence should also have an extra plus and that is a reduced insurance premium; not just a licence to drive a 'you-know-what'!

Before anyone poo-poos a Psych Test, may I offer you these advantages...

An MMPI-IV test can pick up diagnostically ...

a) bipolar

b) major depression

c) schizoid tendencies

d) psychopathic deviate tendencies

e) paranoia & aggression

f) hypomania

g) sociopathology

h) propensity to abuse alcohol

h) that he/she could lose lucidity with even small amounts of alcohol or drugs through brain neurotransmitter dysfunction... yaddayadda,

...conditions that can make a driver 'high risk' when there's pressure or an acute situation.

A good Psych Test like the one above from Uni Minnesota can pick up malingering/lying or even if the subject is only trying to answer to gain approval from the scorer.

The plusses are that roads would be safer to drive on because...

i) anyone who has a pathological condition may get treatment = an option

ii) anyone who has a pathological condition can opt not to get treatment and go through normal channels

iii) existing road users can possibly trust that higher quality drivers are sharing the roads with them

Can I pass this little snippet of constructiveness over to you guys now? I haven't a clue what some of you might think about the thoughts of a 60 yr old eh?

Don't have a problem with your idea Terry. But these things cost money, and no government is going to spend money on these things. All they are interested in is raising money from fining people for minor indiscretions.

We have laws in place to control the types of vehicles that P-platers are permitted to drive. And what is the penalty - a fine and a couple of demerit points! If it's illegal for P-platers to drive these cars, then don't let them drive them. If caught, confiscate the keys.

I don't know what I've done right in the past 30 years, but I have not been involved in any sort of crash that caused injury in thtah time. Actually, none of the accidents I have been involved in have been casualty accidents. Despite numerous forays into the realm of "speeding". The only 2 in the last 5 or so years, I've been stationary, and others have collided with me, generally through lack of concentration.

A licence is a privilege, not a right. It is too easy to get a licence. We need to improve the licence testing. And to get off Ps, you have to complete an advanced driving course. And if the governments were serious about the road safety aspects of it all, they would pay for the courses. The investment would easily be covered by the reduction in cost of treating accident victims.

[MRSAMO]

Gotta be one of the silliest points made in a while.

You blame this on Ford/Holden is laughable at best.

To say Ford/Holdens should be restricted by Police is the same.

They do not produce the cars with P-Platers in mind, what a load of crock.

ANY car can get to 140km/h if you want to. The cars are never the problem. Its the people behind the wheel.

Thanks mate, how old are you?

I've been on the road for over 20 years and had personal experiences in something like this.

Don't call out "this is the silliest post in a while" without finding out the reasons behind it, there are better ways a mod can act.

[RBPOWA-(TJ)]

1 of the neighbors heard the smash, and went out to look over her face, she said she saw a arm over there , and foot there, pair of shoes. just horrible

[wanzi]

I believe advanced driver training can help, as being more aware of your cars limitations perhaps you'll be less likely to push it past them...or at the least you might have a helping hand getting out of a bad situation. But it can also be said to hinder the problem by instilling an unnecessary overconfidence in the vehicle. I'll tell you all from personal experience, and I'm sure others can from theirs, the reality of the consequences does not hit you or teach you a lesson until it happens to you or someone very close to you. Everyone including anyone who dies in a high speed accident has heard of people dying from it...this hasn't stopped them from doing it because in the spur of the moment they believe that the risk is low and chances of it happening to them are slim. Then the day it happens it can be too late to go back and say "ok I won't do it anymore". Now there aren't many who can't say they haven't had a play around in their car when they were young...it's well known that shitloads of young guys do. Call it apathetic but I see the period of driving from P plates up until an age of mature driving as just a period that most survive and some are unlucky not to. Either way, shock tactics and this MAFMAD bullshit does not work - it's not a reality for the audience, it's just a television commercial. Got to find another way to vent the attitude...

only problem is that After doing an advanced drives course or drift lessons etc heaps of people think they are king dick and the next DK so they go out n kill themselves or someone else. It's good how driver dynamics tell that to everyone before they start and show the part of a crashed ferarri as an example

[RCHOO]

Don't call out "this is the silliest post in a while" without finding out the reasons behind it, there are better ways a mod can act.

If you read what he said again he says silliest point. Not silliest post.

[MRSAMO]

May I answer your quite reasonable Q Luke with another Q?

Perhaps my radical thoughts should be best answered by young people since your Q related to exactly that - young people.

I'm just trying to do my best. You see, I'm not even Gen X. I'm a baby boomer trying to understand your thoughts as Luke prompted me to.

To get into the army, you need to do a Psych Test.

To get into the navy, it's the same.

And to become a commercial pilot of whom many are former fly-boys with the air force - a Psych Test is par for the course.

So why not leave current laws the same - except those who wish to gain sanction to drive a vehicle with strong power/wt?

These people would need to agree to certain condition such as...

1) Stages 1-3 advanced driving courses

2) Hours logged on wet road or skin pan

3) Hours of night driving

4) Psychological Temperament Testing

This special licence should also have an extra plus and that is a reduced insurance premium; not just a licence to drive a 'you-know-what'!

Before anyone poo-poos a Psych Test, may I offer you these advantages...

An MMPI-IV test can pick up diagnostically ...

a) bipolar

b) major depression

c) schizoid tendencies

d) psychopathic deviate tendencies

e) paranoia & aggression

f) hypomania

g) sociopathology

h) propensity to abuse alcohol

h) that he/she could lose lucidity with even small amounts of alcohol or drugs through brain neurotransmitter dysfunction... yaddayadda,

...conditions that can make a driver 'high risk' when there's pressure or an acute situation.

A good Psych Test like the one above from Uni Minnesota can pick up malingering/lying or even if the subject is only trying to answer to gain approval from the scorer.

The plusses are that roads would be safer to drive on because...

i) anyone who has a pathological condition may get treatment = an option

ii) anyone who has a pathological condition can opt not to get treatment and go through normal channels

iii) existing road users can possibly trust that higher quality drivers are sharing the roads with them

Can I pass this little snippet of constructiveness over to you guys now? I haven't a clue what some of you might think about the thoughts of a 60 yr old eh?

Terry the conditions listed is pretty exhaustive and I do agree that some pysch test would be a useful assessment as part of the driving test. I'd rather keep things simple and straightfoward without making a qualification to drive a highly costly procedure, the standard driving lessons and tests should cover anyone's competence in driving anyway.

Here's what I would consider:

- Greater restrictions on cars for P platers (use k/w rules)

- Repeated offenders or incident cases should re-sit specific tests including pysch assessments that may require consultations with therapists or counsellors

- No P platers after 1am (if someone has to drive get someone older)

I'm in for advanced driving lessons as long as the emphasis is on safety not just handling (ie. driving slowly on wet conditions, stop if tired, ensure tyres and lights are all working, basic car maintenance etc), otherwise it'll just be another cert for being a track racer. This should already be covered while learning to drive anyway and shouldn't have to cost the rest of us even more money just to get a licence.

As must as we complain/hate it, the current road system should be credited for the decline of road accidents every year:

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/saf...009/rsr_04.aspx

Still 1400 casualties too many and of course we cannot help cases where people die while driving (health reasons like heart attack etc) but its still better than what it used to be. 30km/h school zone - effective (stop killing pedestrians), road humps in suburban areas - effective (I read that 60-70% of accidents occur in less than 5km from one's home or work place), p/w restrictions - effective to some point.

Lastly, when someone brings up the "guns don't kill people, people kill people", well you can choose to live in a society full of guns or you can live in another one without them or are heavily restricted. Our roads are riddled with speed limits and speed cameras, in fact I've never seen so many compared to other countries like Japan where I hardly saw any even in inaka areas where cars are more likely to "open" up. They also have zero tolerance for drink driving too. This says something about our responsibilities as a society for our roads. If we cannot leave it up to the driver to take responsibilities then somebody else has to.

On a side note, my P plate neighbour has an XR6 ute and while it sounds and looks good, he can't help letting everybody else know that he's coming home or going out. His mum must be worrying sick in light of this event, same colour too.

[MRSAMO]

If you read what he said again he says silliest point. Not silliest post.

Sorry, I meant "point"!

[NickR33]

okay bare with me here cos it might sound strange but........

I think modern cars have too much grip and handle too well... when they do finally let go its at a much higher speed... also they tend to be much heavier than older cars so when they start sliding its much harder to reign them in

that coupled with the fact that we refuse to teach P platers how to control an out of control car or even emergency brake

Young people should learn to drive on cars without the electronic aids, cars that have a smaller grip threshold and are generally more difficult to drive... young guys just like to take it to the edge, doesn't matter where that edge is... if its an older car that edge will be at half the speed of a modern XR6

my mates first car, a '78 datto would top out at 140km/h (and take half an hour to get there)... at that speed it felt like the world was ending, like the car would come apart...

[funkymonkey]

so another three kids in the area caught "hooning" after the accident. why is this crap on the news now? this shit happens all the time in mill park/epping/thommo.

also, all p platers, and all in ordinary cars. I don't think targetting the modded car stereotype is gonna cut it anymore, and the sooner the cops wake up to the fact that it's the mentality of drivers that cause the accidents and dangerous situations instead of the cars they drive, the easier it will be to police it.

[lukebaldan]

and the sooner the cops wake up to the fact that it's the mentality of drivers that cause the accidents and dangerous situations instead of the cars they drive, the easier it will be to police it.

Yes the driver does have a lot to do with it, but you cannot rule out the car.

How many "hoon related" accidents do you see involving older 4 cylinder NA cars?

The bottom line is, you put someone young and/or inexperienced in the drivers seat of a high performance car, then they are definately more likely to do something silly. Simple as that.

If i had my GTT when i was 18, i would have gotten myself in trouble. Thankfully i waited 4 years until i matured and was responsible enough to own one. Haven't lost a single demerit point.

There are already too many idiots in V6 commodores let alone more powerful cars. Yesterday in the wet i had a red P plater in a VS deliberately go into the left lane at the lights to 'drag' me.

5 minutes later i saw another VS p plater fish tail when performing a U turn at the lights.

Do you want these people in the possession of higher powered cars? Hell no

Edited January 18, 2010 by lukebaldan