Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

dont know if anyone can confirm this. But i have been told by a large Aus supplier that BW may be dropping the whole EFR range due to 'internal problems" in that side of the business. apparently they have spent so much money on R&D , marketing etc and has cost BW lots of money. and the big bosses at BW may scap the whole thing.

100% incorrect - in fact all of the indy cars next year will need to run (2) EFR 6758 T25 turbo or (1) EFR 9180 Twinscroll T4 turbo. BorgWarner's EFR turbos are the real deal, its just had a way too small supply and a very high demand

I heard that they were having trouble with there suppliers manufacturing quality control and have had to find a new supplier. If this is correct, that would take a fair while.

correct

Edited by Full-Race Geoff

I'm very interested to see if teams lean towards the twins or the singles. It will add lots of fuel in the twins vs single debate.

I think it will come down to engine configuration as to the deciding factor for packaging.

they all run the Cosworth v8, (or is that Champ car?) and the same chassis, so will depend on where the engineers want the weight in the car.

Pretty sure they have merged now bro IRL and Champ Car

otherwise

http://trololololololololololo.com/

  • 3 weeks later...

Another EFR faluire on EvolutionM forum. Im feeling sorry for the guys that've been waiting for over a year for there turbo to have this in the back of there mind - When i actually get my turbo will it fail. :(

I can say the car is stinking fast. First two sessions of the shake down run were great. Went out for the third session, hit the back straight and see a m3 passing me while at WOT. I'm thinking wait how is that even possible (Nobody could even come close to my backstraight speed.)Look down.... 0 boost and a supercharger like whine. Limped it in to see if it was any easy fix.

Luckliy I had the guys from RRE down doing track support so they checked and found no boost leaks and from the intake side it looks like the wheel started digging in to the inside of the housing. It SO hard to see. Running the car, There is a heavy metalic like whine, and with the intake off and putting your hand over the intake side it definently sucks... no leaks everything bulges like it should. The one interesting thing is that when you stop the car... the wheel just stops instantly... typically I was told on a BB turbo the wheel keeps spining.. this just comes to an abrudt stop.

So the car is headed back down to RRE for the turbo to be removed and inspected... But if it was damaged from the original issue, I'm wondering if that may have been part less then stellar results? I don't really know... but I'm trying my hardest to get a solution together before Tuesday.

So, the turbo is off and as far as RRE can tell the bearings are fine. The turbo does not spin because the shaft is bent. That is making it bind on the bearings. One sise of the compressor wheel has relatively undamaged blades. They do not contact the housing. On the opposite side of the wheel the blades are all ground away. We are pretty sure that it wasn't caused by the prior motor’s death.

To be continued:

Pretty pleased I didn't get caught in the moment and order one like I felt mighty close to doing back in around Feb, I really really like the idea of them but regardless of how hard BW have tried and how good the intent is - this isn't good from a consumer point of view.

Absolutely nothing against Full-Race, or Borg Warner... seems like this is a nightmare for all involved but again from the point of view of smart buying there is no way in hell I'd recommend anyone an EFR now, the delays and reliability are well and truly below what I'd call acceptable - especially when talking something this expensive that has still yet to give results that separate themselves from anything else on the market.

It's been an unfortunate series of events to be sure. Had BorgWarner known they were going to run into the production woes from their vendors they certainly would not have launched the product. Fact is, most turbos are holding up just fine. They have determined the culprit of those that have failed and all have derived from one vendor, and the problem only arose AFTER they were mass producing them. We have several that are in use now, taking plenty of abuse and no signs of failure on the horizon. I can say that the turbos we are getting now are solid, but very sparse. It will be another 7-8 months before these turbos are sitting on my shelf, in inventory, waiting for new orders. We see a lot of upside to these turbos, A LOT. It's just been overshadowed by production speed bump after speed bump.

Its interesting to me they seem to be bending shafts, is this related to the lightweight shaft materials or just bearing issues they needed to sort out?

Bit of a shame really, finally a company trying to supply us modern turbos, with space age materials, and its let down by quality issues. I hope they sorted it this time.

They have determined the culprit of those that have failed and all have derived from one vendor, and the problem only arose AFTER they were mass producing them.

....Just make sure mine doesn't come from that vendor, haha :thumbsup:

They way I see it, turbo manufactures are pushing the boundaries to reduce lag and increase power, You are always going to have a few hicups with new development.....This hasn't helped BW as it's one the back of the huge delays due to a vendor not able to produce parts to BW specs....

....But I'm sure when they find all faults (Which no doubt they will have by now) they will be THE turbo to have :cheers:

Its interesting to me they seem to be bending shafts, is this related to the lightweight shaft materials or just bearing issues they needed to sort out?

Bit of a shame really, finally a company trying to supply us modern turbos, with space age materials, and its let down by quality issues. I hope they sorted it this time.

The term "space age materials" does make me laugh a little :nyaanyaa:

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Surely somebody has one in VIC. Have you asked at any shops?  Is this the yearly inspection or did you get a canary?
    • This is where I share pain with you, @Duncan. The move to change so many cooling system pieces to plastic is a killer! Plastic end tanks and a few plastic hose flanges on my car's fail after so little time.  Curious about the need for a bigger rad, is that just for long sessions in the summer or because the car generally needs more cooling?
    • So, that is it! It is a pretty expensive process with the ATF costing 50-100 per 5 litres, and a mechanic will probably charge plenty because they don't want to do it. Still, considering how dirty my fluid was at 120,000klm I think it would be worth doing more like every 80,000 to keep the trans happy, they are very expensive to replace. The job is not that hard if you have the specialist tools so you can save a bit of money and do it yourself!
    • OK, onto filling. So I don't really have any pics, but will describe the process as best I can. The USDM workshop manual also covers it from TM-285 onwards. First, make sure the drain plug (17mm) is snug. Not too tight yet because it is coming off again. Note it does have a copper washer that you could replace or anneal (heat up with a blow torch) to seal nicely. Remove the fill plug, which has an inhex (I think it was 6mm but didn't check). Then, screw in the fill fitting, making sure it has a suitable o-ring (mine came without but I think it is meant to be supplied). It is important that you only screw it in hand tight. I didn't get a good pic of it, but the fill plug leads to a tube about 70mm long inside the transmission. This sets the factory level for fluid in the trans (above the join line for the pan!) and will take about 3l to fill. You then need to connect your fluid pump to the fitting via a hose, and pump in whatever amount of fluid you removed (maybe 3 litres, in my case 7 litres). If you put in more than 3l, it will spill out when you remove the fitting, so do quickly and with a drain pan underneath. Once you have pumped in the required amount of clean ATF, you start the engine and run it for 3 minutes to let the fluid circulate. Don't run it longer and if possible check the fluid temp is under 40oC (Ecutek shows Auto Trans Fluid temp now, or you could use an infrared temp gun on the bottom of the pan). The manual stresses the bit about fluid temperature because it expands when hot an might result in an underfil. So from here, the factory manual says to do the "spill and fill" again, and I did. That is, put an oil pan under the drain plug and undo it with a 17mm spanner, then watch your expensive fluid fall back out again, you should get about 3 litres.  Then, put the drain plug back in, pump 3 litres back in through the fill plug with the fitting and pump, disconnect the fill fitting and replace the fill plug, start the car and run for another 3 minutes (making sure the temp is still under 40oC). The manual then asks for a 3rd "spill and fill" just like above. I also did that and so had put 13l in by now.  This time they want you to keep the engine running and run the transmission through R and D (I hope the wheels are still off the ground!) for a while, and allow the trans temp to get to 40oC, then engine off. Finally, back under the car and undo the fill plug to let the overfill drain out; it will stop running when fluid is at the top of the levelling tube. According to the factory, that is job done! Post that, I reconnected the fill fitting and pumped in an extra 0.5l. AMS says 1.5l overfill is safe, but I started with less to see how it goes, I will add another 1.0 litres later if I'm still not happy with the hot shifts.
    • OK, so regardless of whether you did Step 1 - Spill Step 2 - Trans pan removal Step 3 - TCM removal we are on to the clean and refill. First, have a good look at the oil pan. While you might see dirty oil and some carbony build up (I did), what you don't want to see is any metal particles on the magnets, or sparkles in the oil (thankfully not). Give it all a good clean, particularly the magnets, and put the new gasket on if you have one (or, just cross your fingers) Replacement of the Valve body (if you removed it) is the "reverse of assembly". Thread the electrical socket back up through the trans case, hold the valve body up and put in the bolts you removed, with the correct lengths in the correct locations Torque for the bolts in 8Nm only so I hope you have that torque wrench handy (it feels really loose). Plug the output speed sensor back in and clip the wiring into the 2 clips, replace the spring clip on the TCM socket and plug it back into the car loom. For the pan, the workshop manual states the following order: Again, the torque is 8Nm only.
×
×
  • Create New...