Pre Turbo Water Injection

[sucram]

Thought I would test it while I had stockers on the car while the 2530's are being modified

Attached some typical data, copied from pfc log, clutter removed

so its basically time, rpm, speed, boost, tps

Tab 1 no water injection

Tab 2 pre turbo switched on @10psi

Tab 3 pre turbo switched on @2psi

No post turbo water injection

50/50 water meth

each turbo has a 70cc/min nozzle which has been tested

Full throttle is 3.9v

All are 3rd gear from about 2k and nailing it

No timing or duty changes

Highlighted from 3 to 8psi, 8 to 13 psi, 13 psi to 16 psi with time differences manually typed in

Im in the mindset of disregarding boost vs rpm as the stockers spool really quickly

I would like to test larger nozzles but I dont have any larger pairs

pre turbo WI.xls

[Dale FZ1]

Are you expecting that turbocharger response/spool rate will change by an appreciable amount by introducing water into the compressor inlet stream?

[XRATED]

It's a good way to cut groves in your comp wheels and housings

[TiTAN]

as above.

leave the setup there for a while and it will slowly destroy your turbo's.

[sucram]

turbo responce is actually slower when you consider boost Vs. time. I have a couple of logs from about 2k to about 150klm back to back which shows a 0.7s reduction in time with pre turbo WI on.

They are stock turbos, which were run for about 5-6 years at 17-18 psi so they are worthless anyway. I would like to see the effects on stockers before I consider using it on anything worth while.

Comp wheel damage is possible which is why im trying it on shitters. Not so sure on how the housings will get damaged though

[Trozzle]

turbo responce is actually slower when you consider boost Vs. time. I have a couple of logs from about 2k to about 150klm back to back which shows a 0.7s reduction in time with pre turbo WI on.

They are stock turbos, which were run for about 5-6 years at 17-18 psi so they are worthless anyway. I would like to see the effects on stockers before I consider using it on anything worth while.

Comp wheel damage is possible which is why im trying it on shitters. Not so sure on how the housings will get damaged though

hopefully none of the comp wheel breaks away and goes through the engine...

[R31Nismoid]

If it does, all you can do is laugh really.

Or it might then unsettle the shaft due to the RPM, and send the exhaust wheel dust back in.

attack on both fronts, sure to make the tops of the piston look cool.

[Trozzle]

Should make the most of it imo:

1: remove air filter

2: stick on dyno and load to 8000rpm

3: stick garden hose into airbox

4: ???????

5: PROFIT ^-1

[ahh 33 s2]

^^^WINNING^^^

[sucram]

hopefully none of the comp wheel breaks away and goes through the engine...

draw through set ups 15-20 years ago (and more) wern't breaking comp wheels

with fluid volumes significantly higher then 2x 70cc nozzles.

If it does, all you can do is laugh really.

Or it might then unsettle the shaft due to the RPM, and send the exhaust wheel dust back in.

attack on both fronts, sure to make the tops of the piston look cool.

i'll take pics if it happens

[GTScotT]

yeah I dunno, those nozzles would mist the intake, not inject a solid stream.

I cant see it cutting through a comp wheel.

[TiTAN]

a mist firing into a blade turning at 50,000rpm does more damage than you think.

[Trozzle]

a mist firing into a blade turning at 50,000rpm does more damage than you think.

50,000rpm and the rest...

[jjman]

water is actually extremely abrasive, especially under certain conditions...

Hey dude, can you film this shit every time you run this water injection experiment. Its going to end in an awesome failure on those stock turbos n i want to see that shit go down. I need a good laugh over my morning coffee n that just the number to do it

for some reason all this is reminding me of this clip

which also provided coffee laughs for me a few years ago...

[jet_r31]

If your just using a water jet, yeh it will wear the comp wheel quite quick, as for making it break...ROFLMAO...it rounds of the edges first on the blade tip....

To give the comp wheel a fighting chance you need a nozzle that squirts water and air separatly to break the water into finer microns

Injecting water without tuning is just going to result in lag and usually less power, you need to

1. add timing

2. or add boost to make it work

If you dynoed the car with maxed out the stock compressors and add as much timing on 98 octane as you could to reach MBT, and then

put the water injection on and did the same again, then that would be interesting reading

but atm, this thread is a whole lot of nothing

cheers

darren

[Dale FZ1]

Give credit where it's due. A member is trying something that most people only get to talk about. Yes there may be some negative impacts on turbocharger life depending on how the water is introduced; and no there may be no actual performance improvement depending on what (if any) changes are done to the fuel and ignition mapping.

There is a wealth of information to be found on this forum: http://www.waterinjection.info/

But the OP is doing his best to share results in a quantifiable form. I say lets see what transpires and learn from the experience.

[jet_r31]

^^^I agree, i just know from playing with WI, that there will be no gains without tuning changes, if the OP does what i said

it would be a very interesting read, my mate many many yrs ago,when the fastest gtrs in the land only ran low 11's , had a stock 32 Gtr with just a dodgy water injection setup with a washer bottle motor and a piece of copper pipe on 1.2 bar

stock turbo's, stock computer, stock injectors , shifted timing via crank angle sensor, car ran 11.4 at 121mph on pump

he then fitted stock r34 turbo's, it then went 11.3 at 124mph, embrassed all the big dollars spenders with there hks low mounts way back then.

So it can be fun to play with!

edit: i remember now, the stock pump was hardwired and it had a teed off extra injector(550cc) triggered of a hobbs pressure switch

cheers

darren

Edited August 30, 2011 by jet_r31

[GTRNUR]

VW enthusiests in the US have been using draw water/meth systems for years. Part of the reason is that many of them are using pull through turbo carburator setups. The general concensis is that provided the vaporisation is good, turbine damage is minimal. There is plenty of informaiton on www.shoptalkforums.com.

They aren't injecting a lot of water/meth though, as the typical turbo setup in a VW is rarely more than 300hp. Mind you that power in a 780kg car is plenty of power. Its usually through a 45-55 sized idle jet with a washer bottle pump supplying the flow, injected into the center of the pod filter or ahead of the carb aux venturis.

The advantage is that they are able to run 20lb boost on 8:1 CR engines with no intercooling, yet still run a mechanical advance distributor with a full ignition advance of 30-32 degrees. They run their crappy 91 octane fuel as well.

So as has been said, there is little point in injecting unless your tuning to take advantage of the raised effective octane rating. The only benefit is the steam cleaning the combustion chambers. Without tuning for it, you will actually lose power as the flame front of the burn in the combustion chamber is slower. Same effect as putting C16 into a car tuned for 91 octane.

Good to see someone having a go though. If everyone just did the same as everyone else the world would be pretty boring.

[scotty nm35]

It will just pool in the intercooler won't it? I would be spraying at high pressure (at least 200psi) preferably after the BOV.

[StevenCJR31]

have read many things about WI , as stated above it must enter as a mist or it will cut thru the turbo. .another benefit is that it breaks down the carbon that sits on your pistons and in the combustion chambers, go for it mate and keep us posted on your results including stuff like if the cars fuel consumption changes