Pnm35 Build Thread

[Commsman]

I agree - the number means very little at this stage. There's obviously lots more in it should you wish to push it. Sort out the gearbox & other minor things & see what happens.

In the end it's all about the drive. I'd take tractable, low down power any day over a high end peaky engine with a 'big number'.

[zei20l]

nice work! glad its tuned, the power number isnt a big deal, its the torque youll be pulling

i agree yavuz is awesome at his job, also a great guy

[andy65b]

Well done Alex on getting it to a tune.. has taken a lot longer for some of us M35 drivers

Cheers

Andy

[wolverine]

Who made the call on the boost limit?

[PN-Mad]

Congrats on the tune; as you say, it's less about the number, and more about how it drives.

It was incredibly humid today, and with the temp it's probably not too surprising. At only 4 psi; I reckon you'd be happy with that.

I agree - the number means very little at this stage. There's obviously lots more in it should you wish to push it. Sort out the gearbox & other minor things & see what happens.

In the end it's all about the drive. I'd take tractable, low down power any day over a high end peaky engine with a 'big number'.

nice work! glad its tuned, the power number isnt a big deal, its the torque youll be pulling

i agree yavuz is awesome at his job, also a great guy

Well done Alex on getting it to a tune.. has taken a lot longer for some of us M35 drivers

Cheers

Andy

Thanks guys- It is a good feeling I have something I can get into, knowing that it has been run, tested, and made safe. Its defiantly very torquey- Jetwreck will share some impressions I'm sure once he gets a chance to drive it.

Who made the call on the boost limit?

HKS Wastegate was set with a spring (or a fart seeing its so light). No other boost control at this stage. Its a pretty nice steady line

[bigkevracer]

Good work Alex!

Can we hypothesise on what numbers you'd see at higher boost? 4PSI is incredibly low, as Leon says a lot more in it.

[PN-Mad]

Well, just worked backwards using an average of my 2 NA dyno runs.

Every 1psi makes an extra 11.3kw in the current scale. Hardly scientific / precise, but its a start?

[Dunc]

Good work Alex!

Can we hypothesise on what numbers you'd see at higher boost? 4PSI is incredibly low, as Leon says a lot more in it.

Theres a glass bottom end in his engine according to Craig though, so Im not sure how high they'll ramp the boost

[bigkevracer]

Well, just worked backwards using an average of my 2 NA dyno runs.

Every 1psi makes an extra 11.3kw in the current scale. Hardly scientific / precise, but its a start?

Nice. So 15 PSI would be good for 300kW+ using that logic.

Theres a glass bottom end in his engine according to Craig though, so Im not sure how high they'll ramp the boost

True, but isn't that just because Alex needs to bite the bullet...

Needs more Tomei rods - http://www.cipmotorsports.com/tovqcoro.html

Needs more HKS rods and pistons? http://www.nengun.com/hks/piston-connecting-rod-set

[scotty nm35]

SCOTTY- got your package today thanks. Hope nothing has melted-

No worries Alex, better get it on quick smart. Change the wastegate spring for a 1 bar unit while you're under there and lets see what she's good for mate.

[wolverine]

Was there any reason a boost controller wasn't used as well to bump it up while it was being tuned or is the plan to go back and lean on it a bit harder?

It isn't an exact, but 10kw/psi gains is a good rule of thumb on GT30 based turbos after the first 10psi. Once you are near the limit then it starts dropping down.

My HKS ext gate spring is pretty soft and was rolling over last time at Unigroup.

Edited March 1, 2012 by wolverine

[iamhe77]

Was this the same dyno as your NA runs Alex?

[PN-Mad]

Was there any reason a boost controller wasn't used as well to bump it up while it was being tuned or is the plan to go back and lean on it a bit harder?

It isn't an exact, but 10kw/psi gains is a good rule of thumb on GT30 based turbos after the first 10psi. Once you are near the limit then it starts dropping down.

My HKS ext gate spring is pretty soft and was rolling over last time at Unigroup.

I just wanted to see it tuned at the base level, before seeing a bit more boost. It also allows my driving a little time to catch up! We didn't have time to mess around too much- Powercruise has these guys working OT. I will definatly be going back to sus out a few things with a few "adjustments"

Was this the same dyno as your NA runs Alex?

Different dynos. I had one NA run at 147kw, one at 131kw. This first dyno is known as very happy (not that I knew that at the time)

Big news is that I have nailed hot start.

Bigger news is that I have my shift back!

And this explains why NM35's are suffering that dreaded delay IE why Jetwreck has to shift at 4000RPM to avoid hitting limiter. The ECU talks to the gearbox in 2 different ways- First "calculated load" which is very basic: At RPM points what base fuel schedule is seen at WOT. Secondly a map called "torque management". This is a table that compares RPM and base fuel schedule on the axis', and the numbers in the table equate to the line pressure in the gearbox. Because we reduced the base fuel schedule to around 12 at Max noise this table was waaaaayyyyyy out. It was expecting a BFS of mid 20s at max, so the line pressure would never harden up. At the moment, I'm just using the max as set from factory, and have moved it to the appropriate section of the table.

Shifts are clean and crisp without the massive delay.

This is why NM35s have trouble with the tiptronic once you add some more power in there. The computer isn't expecting to see the BFS the way it does, and then doesn't have an appropriate line pressure to suit when you ask it to shift. Its not a replacement for the transgo kit, because that is needed to hold the higher pressures.

Its wet everywhere here atm, and after doing that, in rwd the bloody thing spins up the first 3 gears!

Edited March 1, 2012 by PN-Mad

[zei20l]

Its wet everywhere here atm, and after doing that, in rwd the bloody thing spins up the first 3 gears!

sounds like fun

[iamhe77]

Alex, I presume you can see/modify all of that information in your Uprev software?

If so, looks like I need to get me one

[Commsman]

Big news is that I have nailed hot start.

Bigger news is that I have my shift back!

And this explains why NM35's are suffering that dreaded delay IE why Jetwreck has to shift at 4000RPM to avoid hitting limiter. The ECU talks to the gearbox in 2 different ways- First "calculated load" which is very basic: At RPM points what base fuel schedule is seen at WOT. Secondly a map called "torque management". This is a table that compares RPM and base fuel schedule on the axis', and the numbers in the table equate to the line pressure in the gearbox. Because we reduced the base fuel schedule to around 12 at Max noise this table was waaaaayyyyyy out. It was expecting a BFS of mid 20s at max, so the line pressure would never harden up. At the moment, I'm just using the max as set from factory, and have moved it to the appropriate section of the table.

Shifts are clean and crisp without the massive delay.

This is why NM35s have trouble with the tiptronic once you add some more power in there. The computer isn't expecting to see the BFS the way it does, and then doesn't have an appropriate line pressure to suit when you ask it to shift. Its not a replacement for the transgo kit, because that is needed to hold the higher pressures.

Its wet everywhere here atm, and after doing that, in rwd the bloody thing spins up the first 3 gears!

Nice one Alex.

If I understand you correctly, it's not the making of the extra power that buggers with the gearbox shifts, it's the fact that much bigger injectors are being used? The base fuel schedule essentially works off injector pulse width, correct? So when adding bigger injectors you reduced the numbers in your table (to about 12 in your case) to get the fueling right, but that played up with the corresponding relationship with the gearbox computer (that was expecting numbers like 20).

Aren't you lucky to be able to delve into the programming.... aren't we (NM35 owners) a little bit screwed then, lol. Well not me as yet, just you other guys with the big squirters. There's a way around it tho, I'm sure.

re the wheel spin. Care required in the wet by the looks of it.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Commsman

[Jetwreck]

Nice one Alex.

If I understand you correctly, it's not the making of the extra power that buggers with the gearbox shifts, it's the fact that much bigger injectors are being used? The base fuel schedule essentially works off injector pulse width, correct? So when adding bigger injectors you reduced the numbers in your table (to about 12 in your case) to get the fueling right, but that played up with the corresponding relationship with the gearbox computer (that was expecting numbers like 20).

Aren't you lucky to be able to delve into the programming.... aren't we (NM35 owners) a little bit screwed then, lol. Well not me as yet, just you other guys with the big squirters. There's a way around it tho, I'm sure.

re the wheel spin. Care required in the wet by the looks of it.

.....and that pretty much explain's why my shift to third is very indecisive when the E-Manage and bigger injectors are in.

mind you in Drive the GB seems to shift and sort its self out a lot quicker

Edited March 2, 2012 by Jetwreck

[PN-Mad]

Alex, I presume you can see/modify all of that information in your Uprev software?

If so, looks like I need to get me one

Yup- its a good bit of kit.

Nice one Alex.

If I understand you correctly, it's not the making of the extra power that buggers with the gearbox shifts, it's the fact that much bigger injectors are being used? The base fuel schedule essentially works off injector pulse width, correct? So when adding bigger injectors you reduced the numbers in your table (to about 12 in your case) to get the fueling right, but that played up with the corresponding relationship with the gearbox computer (that was expecting numbers like 20).

Aren't you lucky to be able to delve into the programming.... aren't we (NM35 owners) a little bit screwed then, lol. Well not me as yet, just you other guys with the big squirters. There's a way around it tho, I'm sure.

Correct- its the Injectors that make it instantly rooted- because of the reduction you have to make in the K fuel multiplier, and therefore BFS

HOWEVER- I would say that when you play with a NM35 and make it come on a lot stronger earlier (ie dump, exhaust, intake pipe etc) I would say that that would have all kinds of dastardly effects on the BFS (and this is why you get really rich- it goes into high BFS, low-mid rpm which it will dump fuel). If you see mine, its sort of like the dyno graph- ramps up and then levels out at about 4750rpm. so the last 4 values in my calculated load table are actually all in the 12's BFS, even though we go from 4600 to 6000 rpm or something.

Any of you guys using aftermarket computers able to access torque management?

[Commsman]

And getting back to the dyno run & 'numbers', this makes good reading.

http://www.sdsefi.com/techdyno.htm

[wolverine]

It will be good to see how it goes with more boost when Yavus gets time.

Since a few more of us use Unigroup it is handy for comparing results between different cars.