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Hks V-Cam & Link G4? Yes We Can! Thanks Again To Chequered Tuning

SS8_Gohan

By SS8_Gohan,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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SS8_Gohan Grand Master

SS8_Gohan

Posted
Posted

Now as I understand it, yes V-cam has been setup on non-Fcon cars (RP have done a couple Power FC examples) but i still believe they run the HKS electronics and controllers to build the V-cam map. (could be wrong on this) - what i asked Trent @ Chequered Tuning to do was different, i asked if the G4 could do ALL the controlling and we ditch all of the HKS electronics. I know the G4 can control variable timing setups, so why not Vcam? So in typical me fashion, i think of something a little different (ie Flex-Fuel) and hand Trent a box of parts and say "kthanxbye!" :D

This was a bit of a mission compared to the Flex-Fuel, and i thought maybe i had asked a bit much this time but Trent as usual, delivered the goods and we now have the Link G4 directly controlling the V-cam, and the plus side to this is that not only do you get a much higher resolution map than what you get with the HKS electronics, you now have all manner of additional parametres to tweak and compensation tables can be added for things like oil pressure etc. Thus the benefit of going directly off the G4 with all the updated capabilities it has.

Considering how much the ECU costs, and what i've asked for it do now... 'tis a good bit of kit! :D

I got some dyno sheets, but i asked for the wrong ones (my fault), so here's the phone pic Trent me after some tuning...

vcam_zpsc8bc4718.jpg

This is a pretty conservative tune too as i understand, quite a bit back in terms of timing at the top end and fueling is on the richer side too i believe. So i think there is still a little in the setup to go...

One thing to keep in mind is that this is the baby V-cam, range of swing is the smallest - as i'm 99% sure i have N1 pistons, i couldn't go any bigger. Down the track, if it comes time for a rebuild or freshen up, i'll make sure to get the pistons to allow for the Type B range of Vcam.

As we've been sorting out some MAP vs TPS issues, the graphs are a little lazier than what the car actually has been setup for previously, so you can shift most of that to the left a little more as well when it's back to where we want it :)

If Trent finds the thread, i'm sure he'll have some more to add but she really is nice to drive and as with all 'new' things, there were some hurdles along the way but the end result is worth it :) A million thanks again to Trent & Cat for once again entertaining my different ideas and coming through with the goods!

There are some possibilities opened by this setup that didn't exist before... that is locally developed V-cam (as a lot of people are on newer gen ECU's, i'm sure there are a lot of variable timing capable) but perhaps that's a project for a different day hahahah - the benefit of this setup is that if replicated you wouldn't have to take the head off (ie RB25 NVCS retro mods) making it much cheaper.

wonder how she'd go with setup replicated on exhaust side............................................... :D lol

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Dose Pipe Sutututu
Dose Pipe Sutututu

Haltech Elite can run it without any silly boxes, there's no box required for it

Dose Pipe Sutututu
Dose Pipe Sutututu

Not to mention you can actually can run a wideband such as an Innovate or AEM or PLX, etc.. and ditch the Haltech wideband box. It's the misinformation and the uninformed that keep saying Haltech

Piggaz Grand Master

Piggaz

Posted
Posted

Awsome man. Looks like it has really woken up the 2530's in the area which matters on the street. How much of a difference to drive is it?

It's great that the Link is doing it's thing! *mega thumbs up*

scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

Posted
Posted

There are some possibilities opened by this setup that didn't exist before...

Thanks for the feedback on this Daniel, I am hoping this means the G4 is able to be programmed for the VQ25det cam actuation also. Do you have any information you can send on the adjustments/settings available? Link were no help when I asked.

The Dan Grand Master

The Dan

Posted
Posted

Very nicely done guys.

Although I'm not sure why you thought the G4 might not be able to? It's just an RPM switchable output.

Even a microtech will do it if you ask them to put the output in the firmware.

STATUS Grand Master

STATUS

Posted
Posted

Very nicely done guys.

It's just an RPM switchable output.

Even a microtech will do it if you ask them to put the output in the firmware.

No its not. and no it cant :P
The Dan Grand Master

The Dan

Posted
Posted

No its not. and no it cant :P

Well I've never seen a Vcam setup so maybe they do it differently to everyone else.

Can definitely get VCT control put in a microtech though.

Obviously the Link does it better but it's gotta be quite a simple task right?

STATUS Grand Master

STATUS

Posted
Posted

Well I've never seen a Vcam setup so maybe they do it differently to everyone else.

Can definitely get VCT control put in a microtech though.

Obviously the Link does it better but it's gotta be quite a simple task right?

its nothing like vct, vct is a fixed on off, VCAM is the same as scottys vq25 setup but only on the exhaust side (from memory the vq has fully variable intake and exhaust). its simple enough in theory on a factory built motor where rpm and advance / retard is predetermined but on an engine not designed around it things go bend and snap.... it is very easy to kiss valves so all the thresholds of retard and advance need to be carefully measured is not just a case of winding in 20 degrees like vct does. This travels alot further among other things.

The hks controller takes care of all the end points once you input the zero point... i had to work it out with a dial indicator as we have no zero point :P

STATUS Grand Master

STATUS

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the feedback on this Daniel, I am hoping this means the G4 is able to be programmed for the VQ25det cam actuation also. Do you have any information you can send on the adjustments/settings available? Link were no help when I asked.

it will have no issues but the config is a real headache (everything i was told setup wise turned out to be incorrect), it took me 1-2 days to nut it out as i was terrified of doing an accidental valve job :P we are talking big angle adjustments so things definitely hit.
The Dan Grand Master

The Dan

Posted
Posted

its nothing like vct, vct is a fixed on off, VCAM is the same as scottys vq25 setup but only on the exhaust side (from memory the vq has fully variable intake and exhaust). its simple enough in theory on a factory built motor where rpm and advance / retard is predetermined but on an engine not designed around it things go bend and snap.... it is very easy to kiss valves so all the thresholds of retard and advance need to be carefully measured is not just a case of winding in 20 degrees like vct does. This travels alot further among other things.

The hks controller takes care of all the end points once you input the zero point... i had to work it out with a dial indicator as we have no zero point :P

Ahh yep, fully variable then. Yeah that's not so easy. Only systems like Motec, Link, Wolf would be able to do that sort of stuff.

We haven't played around with the standard VCT setups that much but would be interesting to see if the solenoid can be PWM'd to give a variable result like that.

How do HKS activate their setup?

scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

Posted
Posted

it will have no issues but the config is a real headache (everything i was told setup wise turned out to be incorrect), it took me 1-2 days to nut it out as i was terrified of doing an accidental valve job :P we are talking big angle adjustments so things definitely hit.

Without Link's support I put the G4 Extreme in the too hard basket. I would have thought there were enough of these Stagea's in NZ now for them to make a plugin, but I guess the numbers are too small for them to bother. Shame, it would be perfect for these engines with the throttle control module...

I tried out the Vmanage, it isn't programmable and is only setup for the VQ35 hydraulic actuators. On the VQ25 the electromagnetic actuators hit their end stops with a bang at any more than 5 degrees input, it would have been either 40 or 50 degrees advance on the intake. The PWM frequency was completely different as I found out. :blink:

For some reference, I lost over 40kw in the midrange and all my response without the cam advance operating.

rob82 Mentor

rob82

Posted
Posted

it will have no issues but the config is a real headache (everything i was told setup wise turned out to be incorrect), it took me 1-2 days to nut it out as i was terrified of doing an accidental valve job :P we are talking big angle adjustments so things definitely hit.

Seems weird that they wouldn't mechanically limit the maximum camshaft phase angle on STD engines. I hate the though of software controlling the maximum phase angle. I've had to do the same thing on some of the 3v ford v8's when they upgrade the camshafts - never had any issues but still make you nervous.

I'm assuming 50% drive is your neutral position? If so make sure you limit your max and min pwm drive to around +/- 10% from your neutral drive. Not sure if you can setup cam error tolerances with the link but you would probably want that too so that if you error is too great for too long it will go back to neutral drive. Be careful with running too much proportional gain and make sure you inhibit control below say 1500rpm.

HYPED6 Collaborator

HYPED6

Posted
Posted

Ok,

Sorry i'm a bit lost....... so these cams are not mechanically stopped from over advancing/retarding and could smash engines by being 0 or 100 % duty in the wrong time?

We setup VCT on engines that don't have VCT........ Has any one actually ever damaged a valve/piston from PWM VCT, or even switched VCT for that matter? has any one ever actually measured Crank degrees vs valve lift vs piston clearance?

Im very interested. I have done plenty of PWM with all the cams (mostly 4) on engines. I have never hit a valve as a direct result of the VCT being setup incorrectly in the software, only being setup incorrectly mechanically.

If you knew some of the lift/durations we run i think the word impossible would be thrown around a bit.

rob82 Mentor

rob82

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ok,

Sorry i'm a bit lost....... so these cams are not mechanically stopped from over advancing/retarding and could smash engines by being 0 or 100 % duty in the wrong time?

We setup VCT on engines that don't have VCT........ Has any one actually ever damaged a valve/piston from PWM VCT, or even switched VCT for that matter? has any one ever actually measured Crank degrees vs valve lift vs piston clearance?

Im very interested. I have done plenty of PWM with all the cams (mostly 4) on engines. I have never hit a valve as a direct result of the VCT being setup incorrectly in the software, only being setup incorrectly mechanically.

If you knew some of the lift/durations we run i think the word impossible would be thrown around a bit.

Most OEM stuff is mechanically limited, by either having enough piston to valve clearance or mechanically limiting the advance/retard (I know this for sure on all EJ sereis motors, 4G63, 4B11, BA-FG falcons, have played around with some toyota and nissan VCT but never tested/Checked for piston to valve clearance).

Also you dont need to drive at 100% to make valves's hit pistons, if there is no mecahincal limit, all you need to do is drive the spool solenoid(if that is what is used) at say 60% for too long to cause it to go to full advance/retard depending upon the engine type......

I'm a little nervous here - I would have more confidence in an OEM ECM that has the cam phasing control loop optimized from factory to limit the max phasing, but I'm not quiet sure I would trust and aftermarket ECM..... There maybe more about the system I dont know - care to elaborate trent? I've also want to get my hands on the V-Cam setup.

Edited by rob82
Lithium Grand Master

Lithium

Posted
Posted

Nice result! Makes a really solid difference :)

You are the guy that Chequered did the Flex-Fuel tuning on as well, eh? Would be interesting to see how the setup goes on ethanol + VCAM!

Pretty cool having the combination of someone keen to try interesting combinations, and a tuner with the inclination and ability to carry it through.

paulR32gtr Mentor

paulR32gtr

Posted
Posted

Loving this Dan - very nice. You are doing everything I want to do. Exactly the direction I would like to head with my 32 in the next year or so.

go to full advance/retard

NEVER go full retard!

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