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Return Flow Intercooler Vs Regular Front Mount Intercooler Question

yoshiii335

By yoshiii335,
in Forced Induction Performance

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scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

Posted
Posted

Yes but some how your SS2 is god like haha

I still don't understand how you managed to make 324kw on 16psi, it's just insane.

Depends which turbine wheel it has, Tao is using near GT35 sized wheels in the SS2 these days so I would expect it to flow well.

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Ben C34
Ben C34

Have you got a darker photo from further away?

scotty nm35
scotty nm35

And yet Kinkstaah made 400kw through a Blitz return flow on his 34... It's easy to blame certain parts, but a 180 degree bend isn't going to hold you back 50kw unless it has a rag in it.

GTSBoy
GTSBoy

My main concern is that what looks like the same cooler might have a core with very different internals and hence very different dP. The other thing with IAT is that what results you get depend VERY

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kingtube69 Experienced

kingtube69

Posted
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I went ATR45SAT from Stao - Supposed to perform well on restrictive systems. I ended up buying a different actuator though so I can get it down to lower boost pressures. The actuator that comes on it is a 20PSI one and I doubt the stock motor would be very happy with that.

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Dose Pipe Sutututu Grand Master

Dose Pipe Sutututu

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I went ATR45SAT from Stao - Supposed to perform well on restrictive systems. I ended up buying a different actuator though so I can get it down to lower boost pressures. The actuator that comes on it is a 20PSI one and I doubt the stock motor would be very happy with that.

stock motor loves boost (when fitted with proper head studs)

spent all Sunday abusing my car at Wakefield in 40 degree heat and then drove home. Motor still pumping on!

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GTSBoy Grand Master

GTSBoy

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Posted

Is there anybody who has tested/used the pwr r34 intercooler. I'ts also a return flow setup but i gues, that a brand like thid will not make something that will give flow restrictions, at least not at that price ...

This is the one I mean: https://www.pwr.com.au/wp-content/uploads/PWI2204-Skyline-R34-GTS.jpg

As I have said before, it does not matter how good the core is when the end tanks (well, mainly the return flow end) suck testes.

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Dr. Surge Enthusiast

Dr. Surge

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Nah, don't think that's the problem because a turn wil not let drop you pressure, the core himself gives a lot more resistance then a turn in a decent diameter could do. You see lots of people who fabricate there own return flow'ish piping with a 180 degree radius directly after the cooler, so that should give you the same issue then a turn Built in the end tank ... Not talking about the phenomen that the isue is mush bigger on a neo engine

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Trex Grand Master

Trex

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Nah, don't think that's the problem because a turn wil not let drop you pressure, the core himself gives a lot more resistance then a turn in a decent diameter could do. You see lots of people who fabricate there own return flow'ish piping with a 180 degree radius directly after the cooler, so that should give you the same issue then a turn Built in the end tank ... Not talking about the phenomen that the isue is mush bigger on a neo engine

Hks made one with the 180 bend. I was going to make one and did a bit of work and was very easy to do. The only problem was it was either too low or it sat against the radiator.

I honestly can't see or have found a good explanation on why a return flow is a restriction.

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Ryno Experienced

Ryno

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I'd believe GTSBoy... But if you need more info. This page has more info than you could ever want on intercoolers.

http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm

My new intercooler is an ARE, given the information they've put together on that page, they clearly know what they're talking about.

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Dr. Surge Enthusiast

Dr. Surge

Posted
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Ok rhen you'll be kowinng what you're saying :-p

But i personaly don't see the the difference, can you explain why you're not having the same isue if you're fabricating a 180 degree turn directly after the end tank. Because of you look at the blitz, it's just like they have 'welded/extruded' the turn just after they bring the air together in the end tanks.

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XKLABA Grand Master

XKLABA

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It's not so much the 180deg bend as it is that it turns on such a tight radius, if the 180deg bend was around a 300mm radius the issue wouldn't be so bad but most return flow intercoolers have the 180deg bend inside a 100mm radius which with air volume and velocity trying to get the air to change direction causes turbulance which creates a high pressure area inside the bend that restricts flow

A crap cooler core runner entry design will also add to the issue

Now I'm only a machine opertator so that might be wrong but that's my understanding of it

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GTSBoy Grand Master

GTSBoy

Posted
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^ This is pretty much it. It's not just the tight radius. At least with a bend to make the equivalent of a return flow cooler, it is made out of pipe, so has a smooth pipe to flow around the 180. The exit from a typical return flow tank is just shocking, basically just a 90° sharp corner off the end of the tank, and that's after the air has already had to turn 90° off the end of the tubes.

On top of that, the core is only ~75% the height of a full cooler because the return pipe either goes above or below the core. So you will run a higher pressure drop across the core itself at any given power level.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a vendetta out against return flow coolers. I have one on my car and have done so since last century. Just pointing out that there are real reasons why they will hit the wall before a normal cooler will.

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