R32 GTST - 600KW+ RB28/CD009 Build

[TurboTapin]

On 4/5/2025 at 9:41 PM, GTSBoy said:

Safety network should be dedicated, duplicated, disparate physical route.

If it's not that, it was never good enough, even with maintenance.

Unfortunately, not only is that not the case, one of the main "Selling points" of safety over comms is they clearly state in writing that there's no need to segregate safety networks from non-safety networks. It always gets intermingled with everything else on an ICS/OT network. 

[TurboTapin]

On 4/6/2025 at 4:21 AM, GTSBoy said:

Luckily for safety applications, with dedicated links not being used for any other traffic, you simply run ProfiSafe (or an equivalent safety comms protocol from other vendors) over the top of ProfiNet (if that's what you're using, or Ethernet IP if you're stuck in the world of American PLCs and not verking vis ze Chermans) and the redundancy is more about being able to know that you need to cause a system diagnostic lockout because you've lost one of your comms channels, rather than not knowing that you've lost your only comms channel.

Granted, heartbeats and all that are possible and useable and all that, but some safety applications are are so time critical that you might not be able to afford a few milliseconds until the next check.

Most of the industry in North America either runs on Siemens or Allen Bradley. I have two redundant S7-1500's on my desk right next to me for simulation. Siemens has been losing ground though since Stuxnet, as cybersecurity is a big thing. In my line of work that is federally regulated, you must by law have a cybersecurity management program in place and its audited and inspected every so often. 

On 4/6/2025 at 7:02 AM, GTSBoy said:

Yucky.

Things haven't gotten any better though. Now you have Emerson and Honeywell pushing these massive DCS/Scada things with proprietary hardware. They're not a PLC, they're not a computer, they're a...distributed PLCish/DCSish monster of thing, that only they can program because they make the barriers to entry for anyone else so fricking high. And their developers are all located in the third/developing world (and India, in case anyone does not include that place in that category) and there are terrible failings of the ESl variety, of the care and common sense variety, and f**king forget about Functional Safety. Not a one of them has any idea what it means to comply with an IEC 615xx series standard.

I work with Emerson PLC's daily (RX3i's) and have done large biogas/refinery projects with their DCS's. Their PLC's are somewhat OK minus the way they do PLC redundancy (You have to download on both PLC's separately every time you make a change ) 

As for their DCS's... you'll be limited financially first before anything else stops you. Costs are exorbiant at roughly 10x what it would cost you to do with any other system (e.g AB PAC). 

On 4/6/2025 at 4:48 AM, MBS206 said:

Ha ha ha, this stuff they had was installing Toshiba PLCs that were made some time in the 1990s, and they were replacing GEM80 PLCs.

To let those two talk (staged upgrade along a ~1.2km long building that was split into 4 sections), was a bunch of WinXP machines running Java gateways... There was no way to put something like ProfiSafe in...

Most of the HMI machines were WinXP, with Java program, with a custom button board emulating a keyboard... About the only buttons in the operator stations that went direct to the PLCs was the eStop.

There was some interesting design stuff in that place...

1990's, those suckers are brand new haha! Kraft-Heinz (An old client when I use to work for an ESP) still runs Siemens TI505 PLC's from the mid 80's. Ohh how I don't miss working with those... you could only do a certain number of online downloads until it's "Change" buffer would be full and you would then need to go offline to do a full download. There was no warning of when this was coming up and it generally would happen when you would go in at 2am to make changes before production -_-. 

 

 

Edited April 7 by TurboTapin

[GTSBoy]

9 hours ago, TurboTapin said:

Unfortunately, not only is that not the case, one of the main "Selling points" of safety over comms is they clearly state in writing that there's no need to segregate safety networks from non-safety networks. It always gets intermingled with everything else on an ICS/OT network.

ISO 61508/511 et al would tell you that that is a good way to fail a Functional Safety Assessment, V&V and Ausit. All of them. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Go back and do it again.

[TurboTapin]

15 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

ISO 61508/511 et al would tell you that that is a good way to fail a Functional Safety Assessment, V&V and Ausit. All of them. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Go back and do it again.

I just got to work and skimmed through 61508 and 61511. I was surprised the CSA adopted both, but neither are enforced. To recap what I read, it states that in a perfect world, they should be segregated but they acknowledge that this is not industry standard and clearly mention that they allow mixing of safety and non-safety. 61511 also mentions software segregation like AB does in their safety PLC's.  

Now if only I could go back to control, let alone safety over comms. In my current line of work, we're only allowed monitoring and basic control over comms. Everything critical must still be hard wired as much as possible. 

Edited April 8 by TurboTapin

[TurboTapin]

I picked up my block and head last week and have been slowly assembling it since then. Pictures I took earlier this week. The rest of the auxiliaries are on now. I just have my intake manifold runners to tap for my WMI direct port setup before putting it back on. I should hopefully have the motor back in by this weekend. 

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

You work fast and efficient, all that would have taken me at least 2.5 years LOL

[Curlyfred]

Hi Andrew!

I'm new on this forum and i'm delighted to see someone else with a high horsepower r32 gtst!
I've gone through most of your journey and i'm super impressed with all the work you've done!

I've got many question since i'm chasing something similar in my GTST!

 

[TurboTapin]

7 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

You work fast and efficient, all that would have taken me at least 2.5 years LOL

Haha thanks! Our 4 seasons here are a great motivator to get things running for the summer season. 

[TurboTapin]

2 hours ago, Curlyfred said:

Hi Andrew!

I'm new on this forum and i'm delighted to see someone else with a high horsepower r32 gtst!
I've gone through most of your journey and i'm super impressed with all the work you've done!

I've got many question since i'm chasing something similar in my GTST!

 

Thanks for the kind words! Feel free to ask anything, anytime. Cheers. 

Edited May 8 by TurboTapin

[TurboTapin]

Wrapped up putting the motor back in today. I have a stainless flex turbo drain pipe like you see on cummins and that funny enough PRP started selling. I generally prefer these but sadly they come with a finite amount of times they can be bent before they snap. Took well over a week for a replacement to arrive. 

I was able to prime the pump but I will more then likely wait until next friday to take it on its madden voyage. I also installed the nozzles for my direct port WMI setup but plugged the nozzle holders for now. I'll tube it with Swagelok SS tubing and fittings next chance I get. No rush, i'll be breaking it for a week or two anyways. 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Very cool, see what I did there? 🥲

Wild WMI setup, first I've seen where it's on each cylinder runner, usually I see a single jet pre throttle.

[TurboTapin]

2 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Very cool, see what I did there? 🥲

Wild WMI setup, first I've seen where it's on each cylinder runner, usually I see a single jet pre throttle.

Haha thanks! Yea I'm moving over from 2x 1000cc jets pre throttle over to 6x 190cc direct port jets and 1x 500cc pre throttle jet. 

Direct port comes with all the advantages you would expect, except that pre throttle does cool down IAT'S more. That's why my direct port nozzle placement is closest to the plenum as possible in the runners to allow the air more time to cool before being sucked in. I'm also putting that one 500cc pre throttle jet to help with more cooling. It's a hybrid system. There's a lot more advantages to moving over to a PWM solenoid with a constant pressure system vs my old PWM pump setup, but I'll get more into that once I'm done converting everything over. The ricer in me is excited to see SS tubing all over my manifold though!