Blue slip

[Stringycheese]

Hey guys,

Purchased and drove up new wheels from Vic last weekend. Car never been registered in Aus before. Only thing was aware of was pod filter which reverted back to stock.

Went to get blue slip in western sydney. Everything with car fine (compliance etc) and knocked back for coilovers. Was told illegal and need engineering cert. Called the certifier they recommended and was told at min $1000 to certify them. I was then told HP can STILL defect you even with them certified. All this was news to me.

Is this just a case of deal with pay the $1000 and run the risk? Kind of nuts given the amount of people running with coils I know of. No one I know has OEMs to use to pass, either.

[PranK]

I've had two super conflicting experiences with blue slips. My 30 year old E39 waltzed through with no issues but my brother in law was knocked back on 12 y/o 3 series due to wiper blades and some cracking in a control arm bush. 

What kind of coil overs? Do you want to keep them after? 

If it was me I'd get some dirt cheap shocks and springs from eBay or scumtree. Not ideal but will get you over the line and might even be less than $1k.

[PranK]

Should have asked what is the car?

[Stringycheese]

Thanks for the response.

This is an 04 EP3 Type R. JDM spec.

Fairly certain they're just basic BC racing coils. I do plan to keep as the ride quality on stock I've been told is pretty meh given Sydney roads.

If I were to go down that avenue, does NSW require them to be a certain spec (close to original) etc?

[Duncan]

You just need a different blue slip shop (preferably one you regularly use as a mechanic), and make sure the coil overs are as close as possible to standard height

[Stringycheese]

Thanks @Duncan

Ride height is fine. I think it's almost stock tbh. Happy to share a pic.

I don't actually have a regular mechanic as haven't lived in Sydney too long. Could you or anyone recommend any shops in Sydney?

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Might be worthwhile hitting up Facebook's groups, I know most of them contain terrible people and scammers - however you might be able to find someone that's in Sydney with factory suspension you could purchase and/or hire.

Just do not send any form of money anywhere, in person cash only.

[GTSBoy]

Hang on. Let me get this straight.

The desire is to have coilovers, BC in particular, to be MORE comfortable on Sydney roads than stock suspension? Well, that's obviously not right. BCs have crude damping design at the very best, and typically hard spring rates. BC stands for Billy Cart.

And then, the desire is to put in some shitty old worn out stockers, to get it blue slipped and then put the BCs back in? And then.....what? Not worry about getting pulled up by the Plod? Because you seem to have raised a worry about paying for engineering (which actually does solve all your legality problems) and still getting pulled up.... but the only problem there is that if/when that happens you have to show your paperwork at the inspection station. Whereas, if you just swap in borrowed shitty old stockers to get it slipped now, and then you get defected in the future, you have to go find more shitty old stockers then too.

You course of action looks like this set of options:

• Buy brand new stock type dampers, and springs. probably cost a bit more than $1k all up, but will last for the remaining life of the car. Put them in, pass inspection, drive on them forever more. Hell, they could even be really nice Bilsteins and Kings or other lower&stiffer springs if you wanted.
• Get the car engineered as is. ~$1k.
• Buy new Shockworks coilvers (or MCA) and also pay for engineering. You're spending a lot more here. But these will be the best things that you could drive around on.

[PranK]

[Kinkstaah]

Sorry, are coilovers ACTUALLY ILLEGAL in NSW?

They aren't in Vic, as long as they retain 70% of stock travel and the car is above 100mm off the ground.

Does NSW actually have a law making coilovers actually illegal?

RWC/Blue Slip/Engineering people not knowing the actual f**king laws boils my blood. Demand them to point to the documentation that states a coilover is illegal. (it may exist in NSW )

Edit: I checked. They aren't.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-02/RMS-infosheet-light-vehicle-modifications-manual-suspension-and-ride-height.pdf

[GTSBoy]

The problem has always been that coilovers are able to be adjusted, almost at any time, to be too low. Most people who ever get/got defected for/with coilovers were actually afoul of the minimum ride height rule. So the interpretation by cops/inspectors was always that it is pointless to allow numpty to raise his coilovers and get the car inspected/cleared, then just drop them back down again as soon as they get around the corner from the inspection station. 

This led to the interpretation that they were illegal unless rendered such that they can't be adjusted (ie, collars welded to the body, that sort of thing). That may or may not have ever actually been the official line, but I'm pretty sure it's not considered to be a solution these days.

Coilovers themselves fall under clause 3.2 b of that manual, because they are an "installation of a variable ride height system" and they don't fit the exclusions in that clause (which point to air springs and other pneumatic adjusters).

So, as per previous statements, they require engineering cert to be legal on the road. Once you have such cert, provided you do not adjust them outside the height range covered by the cert, you are OK. Without, you have an unroadworthy vehicle.

[MBS206]

Kinkstah, no, coilovers aren't illegal, especially as a bolt straight in. The illegal part will be if they're altering suspension geometry beyond factory limits, or the ride height is not legal.

 

Sounds like the blue slipper just didn't want to deal with any later possibility of mods appearing on the car.

[Kinkstaah]

They actually don't - They adhere to VSB14 rules just like Victoria.

The rules are against CABIN adjustable height, and it quite clearly states that the height has to be within parameters. I asked the VASS engineer to confirm this when I got my car engineered and they refused to engineer the coilovers because they didn't meet the requirements for requiring engineering. (mine are height adjustable.)

People "Not wanting to bother" with "Actually reading/knowing/adhering to the rules" should result in fines and immediately losing the ability to issue blue slips and/or RWC's in Vic.

[The Bogan]

37 minutes ago, Kinkstaah said:

Sorry, are coilovers ACTUALLY ILLEGAL in NSW?

They aren't in Vic, as long as they retain 70% of stock travel and the car is above 100mm off the ground.

Does NSW actually have a law making coilovers actually illegal?

RWC/Blue Slip/Engineering people not knowing the actual f**king laws boils my blood. Demand them to point to the documentation that states a coilover is illegal. (it may exist in NSW )

Edit: I checked. They aren't.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-02/RMS-infosheet-light-vehicle-modifications-manual-suspension-and-ride-height.pdf

From your link

See bold text, is this referring to damper settings, if so that may a issue for "some" inspectors, I cannot see aftermarket coilovers having the evidence that "must be available that its functional performance is equivalent to the original"

Maybe just remove the adjustment knows and hope for the best????

Meh

5.2 Suspension travel

In all instances, modifications to a vehicle’s suspension must ensure the integrity of the system and not compromise the ride quality. At least two thirds of the original suspension travel should be maintained in both directions (rebound (i.e. extension) and bump (i.e. compression)), and rebound must be limited by the same method used by the vehicle manufacturer or if this is not practicable due to the nature of the modification, an equivalent method. If an alternative method is used, evidence must be available that its functional performance is equivalent to the original.

[Kinkstaah]

I would think making the argument that the travel is limited by a spring flexing against a spring perch as "the same method".

Later on in the document they do state that the spring can't bind on full bump travel and cannot come loose in full rebound travel as well. (which is all very sensible).

The laws are actually pretty sensible and reasonable. It's just that the people who enforce and check them don't actually read them or know them accurately.

"Oh, coilovers? Instant fail mate. Don't even need to look at it." - Guy who will be instantly reported by me.

There is probably merit to people who do get defected for height also get defected for the suspension in that state that allows it. I did never consider the people who are complaining about coilovers being picked on are also running around at 50mm off the floor.

[GTSBoy]

My post contains the actual truth.

Clause 3.2 b.

[Kinkstaah]

8 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

My post contains the actual truth.

Clause 3.2 b.

This is the check list they sign off on.

This implies that adjustable coilovers of the type we're referring to are not a "Variable Ride Height" system. This very much is in the ethos of "I can change the height while moving/while parked without pulling wheels off the car and mechanically doing so"

[soviet_merlin]

Out of curiosity, how do officials determine what the OEM ride height and suspension specs are? Do they have a book of truth? I'd think that would be quite obscure knowledge for random JDM cars.

[GTSBoy]

24 minutes ago, soviet_merlin said:

Do they have a book of truth?

Yes they do.

24 minutes ago, soviet_merlin said:

I'd think that would be quite obscure knowledge for random JDM cars.

For some maybe. But for those used the most by abusers, ie Skylines, the numbers are known. The stock eyebrow height for R32/3 Skylines is about 365/375mm or thereabouts. The minimum such heights are recorded in adjacent columns in the database.

[GTSBoy]

1 hour ago, Kinkstaah said:

This is the check list they sign off on.

This implies that adjustable coilovers of the type we're referring to are not a "Variable Ride Height" system. This very much is in the ethos of "I can change the height while moving/while parked without pulling wheels off the car and mechanically doing so"

No, I'd suggest that that is the checklist for pneumatic/hydraulic adjustable systems.

I would say, based on my years of reading and complying with Australian Standards and similar regulations, that the narrow interpretation of Clause 3.2 b would be the preferred/expected/intended one, by the author, and those using the standard. Wishful thinking need not apply.