Kkr And Monsta Turbos

[Bass Junky]

P-hizzel

Did you know that turbos were originally designed for aeroplanes for altitude compensation????

So, yeah. Air Pressure and Density has a lot to do with it.

Same idea as cooling the air going into the filter. The lower temp air that goes in there = lower temp air in the plenum after it gets compressed and heate by that compression.

BASS OUT

PS. I personally witnessed Nismoids car run 369, In fact I watched it run about 4 runs prior to that and each time they increased the timing a little.

The only reason his car isn't on the roa right now, is because a worked RB26 is going in.

He'll be at the drag day next weekend (we hope) to actually run times. Not talk about charts.

BASS OUT

[GT-PASSAGE]

  R31Nismoid said:

I totally agree with you. 4psi is a big difference.

However, to sum up the differences you claim... and quite simply, they make little to no difference.

Lets go through them shall we?

1) Injectors will not increase power.

550cc can flow enough for 300rwkw, so the injectors as a "different" mod are discounted straight awat

2) Head gasket, you have a thicker one that the benhpi car...

Again, this is a mod that is not going to increase power at all. It will allow you to run more boost without detonation to make more power...

But in your case you are running less boost - 16psi so that makes no sense

3) 3" exhaust. Benhpi & your car are both running a 3" exhaust. So thats discounted aswell

4) Drivetrain - another useless fact. The car benhpi is talking about is an R33 GTS-t.

So your car has R33 runinng gear, so does the comparo car... So i cant see that making a difference

5) Benhpi car is also running an upgrade fuel pump the same as you car.

Another mod discounted

There are a lot of things here that you are claiming are aiding in the "40rwkw with 3-4psi less" difference that quite simply have little to do with outright power as they are supporting mods that are the same across 2 cars.

They might not be identical brand names, but the parts are upgraded non the less.

The only difference that can affect power is the CAT... you dont have one.

But its not a "40rwkw with 3-4psi less"difference as the Benhpi car no doubt is using a hi-flow cat of some description aswell (he mentioned a different one)

A fresh motor maybe a minimal increase... but benhpi would surely inform us if his test car had a tired motor.

So i'll trust that both cars motors are near enough the same condition

Could you please provide any extra mods apart from the above that i have missed?

Maybe they are whats helping you make the power? Something you have forgotten like a set of cams?

This is a good thread and lots of information contained in it. So if you could further add any other mods which are aiding your much better power figure that would be good

TJ - i agree.

Although i already knew the connections with otomoto/hpi/ben etc.

This debate has gone for months across 2 websites and has 100's of posts, I agree its good info.

If it was simply you (nismoid) wanting to know the set up and "how" we got the power then I personally wouldn't have got so passionate about the whole thing, but it was because you started off with you calling me, my builder and tuner bullshitters...That will get ya back up... So you set out on a crusade to prove it wrong.

1st Prove injectors wrong....Injectors right!at

2nd Prove Barometric pressure wrong....BP right!

3rd Dyno "fudged".....2nd dyno over 300kws.

Now you think secret internals?

My spirited mate did have a good point maybe the answer is in the combination of those "different" mods.

You mention how close Benhpi's car is in mods to the Passage and you seem to know heaps about what he has inside it, but I havn't seen him posting that!

Again it was never said that it will rip off a 11 flat 1/4, I listed power and then I am just reacting to someone calling me a b-shitter.

Sorry not to have an offical "this is why there is a power difference". I listed everything to try to piece together why the extra KWS. Sometimes its a combination, or sometimes a motor just pumps out more KWS I'm sure its not the 1st time in the world that a motor has produced more then average power.

All I can said is I FULLY recommend the 480 for bang for the buck there is nothing close, don't know yet how fast but can attest to eating a few GTR's, WRX's, SS/XR8's Etc (in controlled conditions of course)

If you want to get something in the $3000 dollar mark I'm sure you will get a more friendly power curve and more response. But for me I'm as happy as a pig in shit!! Its fun as to have cheap tyre frying power that seems to be smoking all in its path. And with the amount of money I saved I can install a NOS kit and still be well under the 3G. (except for the boom for the stock RB)

G.

[osiris23]

what about the 430s? no one has really touched much about these. I dont want a 480 as i just want a reliable driver with nice power and not very laggy.

So yer has anyone tried a 430 on a 25 at all?

[stolen_s15]

When it comes to turbos you ALWAYS get what you pay for.

my 2c

[Abo Bob]

  benhpi said:

Actually the car which recorded 242kW (HPI34T) has since been retuned by Advan and now makes 260.7kW at 19psi. Since my own car also makes 256kW at similar boost with lower compression (RB24 with Tomei pistons) I figure 260kW at the wheels is a realistic expectation for the KKR-480 on an RB25DET. This was all I wanted to get across with my update, but it seems people are getting very emotional about the subject.

Just for a bit of non biased opinion, most people here know me, I have driven this car (HPI34T) on it's current tune.

I can tell you that it is a very fun car to drive. Yes it does have a high boost threshold but I wouldn't call it laggy. It does come on like a lightswitch and that's part of what makes it so much fun.

I'm not saying it's the quickest car out there, and most people know I am a hopeless drag racer, but in terms of fun factor, it's got it.

He does have the rev limit raised to 8k which definitely helps because 1st and 2nd gears would be useless without the extra 1000rpm. 3rd gear is the most fun although the most likely to get you into trouble with the law of course. It's kind of like each gears burst of acceleration being a small but very tasty lolly whereas my car is more like a really tasty steak.

[thommo]

  BOVed said:

Been shopping around for a new turbo for my R33GTST and have seen a few Monstas on Ebay and been told about the KKRs on the Oshimoto site just after some opinions

who would have thought that such a simple question would start such a massive shitfight?

the kkr turbo is a cheap option that will be great for plenty of people, but i personally wouldn't touch it...

all i wanna see is timeslip vs. timeslip / ash vs. gt passage

[predator]

we all know ash likes to stir a fight.. but then again he's not one for getting his pretty hands dirty

[brother_david]

Im receiving a KKR 480 in a couple of weeks, i can post the progress and results here.

Im running a R33 GTST, 3" turbo back-exhaust, hks induction kit, hks EVC III and Denso sparkplugs, will probably get another in-tank fuelpump (i have an in-line fuelpump altough it isnt fitted), and a FPR.

Cheers!

[BOVed]

:laughing-smiley-014: Haha!!! looks like I've started a massive shitfight starting this post! never thought Id get this many varied replys I hadnt checked on it till today, thanks for your input

[paulr33]

that turbo on stock ecu and stock inj is a bit silly, youll need a real ecu and some injectors and likely an airflow meter and clutch

[brother_david]

Got aftermarket clutch, and a airflow meter, hopefully i wont have to invest in new injectors to soon, but if i have to, ill just switch the turbo back until i get them, anyways, we'll see how it goes

Cheers

[warpz0r]

Got my kkr480 aswell this week... supporting mods are

780cc injectors

power fc

3" exhaust

fuel pump

all going into a RB30DET... first and 2nd gears will be limited to 7psi for traction and 3,4 will be 16-18psi with 5th gear again at 7psi for crusing...

should be fun

[rb26s13]

i havent read the whole 6 pages.. just majority of the last page.. when it comes to turbos you get wat you pay for.. and i'd rather pay for the quaility of garrett or hks when it comes down to it..

as for warpzor running 7psi for traction issures in 1st and 2nd(understandable) than 16-18psi 3rd-4th and 7psi in 5th for crusiing.. thats just stupid if your cruising you should be in vacume so boost doesnt matter

Edited May 21, 2006 by rb26s13

[lows_13]

Is there any way of running a different dump pipe setup?

something other than the one you have to buy to suit

[R31Nismoid]

nope, not unless you change the rear housing

[Cubes]

  warpz0r said:

Got my kkr480 aswell this week... supporting mods are

780cc injectors

power fc

3" exhaust

fuel pump

all going into a RB30DET... first and 2nd gears will be limited to 7psi for traction and 3,4 will be 16-18psi with 5th gear again at 7psi for crusing...

should be fun

You won't be limiting boost, a turbo that comes on around 4.5k on an rb25 will come on just before 4k on the 3ltr.

First gear will be useless not because of the lack of traction but the lack of real boost, second will be a little better but still the turbo won't be able to really spool up hard and start moving some air, but third is where it will be at.

Aim for what I say and you won't dissapoint your self.

Your spool threshold appears to be slightly worse than what a GT35r 1.06 *cough high 300rwkw capable cough* is.

Run 3.7:1 diff gears may help bring the turbo on song a little better in the lower gears.

[Dr_Drift]

  lows_13 said:

Is there any way of running a different dump pipe setup?

something other than the one you have to buy to suit

Every one I've fitted we just welded a 4 bolt GT30 Flange to the back of the housing... never had a problem, and save heaps...

I have seen different T70's the the ones I have used with success but don't know if they're the same internals or not. The ones I have used do not have the copy Garrett front cover 'A/R 0.70 M24' etc... And they do not have 'Holset' on the exhaust...

[Sydneykid]

I would like to make this the ONLY thread on KKR turbos, it seems to have the most info.

1. 2rismos car is NOS ‘d for its 265 rwkw, please remember that at all times when comparing results with a car that achieves its 265 rwkw without NOS

2. Max power at one rpm point does not determine the ¼ mile time, it’s the average power over the rpm range used during the ¼ mile run that determines the ET. The ¼ simulators assume a mid point average power (not laggy not responsive) for the max power input.

3. Hence a car with a peaky 265 rwkw will be slower over the ¼ mile than a car with a broad power band 265 rwkw, simply because it has the lowest average power. It may also be more difficult to get off the line (launch) and hold on boost during gear changes. So the differences in ET can be quite marked.

4. The KKR turbos I have seen are plain bearing not ball bearing

5. The KKR turbos I have seen have no water cooling, they use oil for both lubrication and cooling. This puts a great deal more stress on the engine oil than when using a water cooled ball bearing turbo (standard or otherwise). So be aware of the need to change the oil more frequently and cool the turbo down after any heavy use.

6. The KKR turbos I have seen are not bolt on to RB20/25’s and do not come with all of the necessary items to make them fit (ie; gaskets etc). You will have to buy extra bits, you will have to modify bits, you will spend more money on parts and fitting than the basic purchase price of the turbo itself.

7. Positive articles on KKR turbos in HPI, Zoom or any other Express Publications magazine should be treated with suspicion. Otomoto have a self benefit interest in promoting their own products. Similarly HR suspension (coil overs) and the other items sold by Otomoto.

That’s enough from me.

cheers